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(Nov 11, 2020 05:42 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Watch it, Leigha. SS thinks sperm is a "potential human being". So she's about to ask you why you don't outlaw masturbation or some other red herring.

lol Well, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that masturbation is sinful, and it frowns on contraception (also sinful, as it is seen as preventing life)
(Nov 11, 2020 06:26 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]lol Well, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that masturbation is sinful, and it frowns on contraception (also sinful, as it is seen as preventing life)

I would think that even Catholics distinguish between "preventing life" and "killing life".
(Nov 11, 2020 06:26 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]
(Nov 11, 2020 05:42 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Watch it, Leigha. SS thinks sperm is a "potential human being". So she's about to ask you why you don't outlaw masturbation or some other red herring.

lol Well, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that masturbation is sinful, and it frowns on contraception (also sinful, as it is seen as preventing life)

Do you believe that I think that, Leigha?
(Nov 11, 2020 06:30 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]
(Nov 11, 2020 06:26 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]lol Well, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that masturbation is sinful, and it frowns on contraception (also sinful, as it is seen as preventing life)

I would think that even Catholics distinguish between "preventing life" and "killing life".

Yea, I believe they view abortion as “gravely contrary to moral law,” as opposed to contraception which isn’t as grave? 

As a side note, when I stepped away from faith for a few years, I still held this same position on abortion.

(Nov 11, 2020 06:34 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]
(Nov 11, 2020 06:26 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]
(Nov 11, 2020 05:42 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Watch it, Leigha. SS thinks sperm is a "potential human being". So she's about to ask you why you don't outlaw masturbation or some other red herring.

lol Well, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that masturbation is sinful, and it frowns on contraception (also sinful, as it is seen as preventing life)

Do you believe that I think that, Leigha?

I don’t really, and for the record, I may disagree with your stance, but I understand your line of thinking a bit more.
Oh my, that's both funny and creepy at the same time, MR! Big Grin
(Nov 8, 2020 02:34 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: [ -> ]How long will Biden euphoria last? Did he make any promises he can break? What group that supports him now will be the first to have second thoughts about that decision?

Nothing special here but some things are inevitable. IOW you can’t please everybody.

Speaking of not being able to please everybody...  Genocide-wise, abortion could be a rocky road even if the Left only had itself to contend with (sans conservatives, centrists, traditionalists, etc). Since its very ideological bedrock consists of either creating or discriminating various oppressor/oppressed (bully/victim) scenarios taking place in the world, which it then politically exploits (or uses to maintain power).   

The various factions that Biden is currently grange-manager over would then have only each other to project that basic, tactical paranoia upon (i.e., one group's self-interests infringing upon another's, as well as their pet conspiracies). In addition to the below, there is fear of LGBT genocide{*}, female genocide, Muslim genocide, etc. 

Most women getting abortions today are living in poverty. Donations from white affluent men along with support for funding abortion and setting up more clinics in poor areas thus in turn feeds the Black genocide conspiracies revolving around birth control and abortion, with their roots in early sterilization policies and Margaret Sanger's (arguably) misconstrued quote:

"The ministers work is also important and also he should be trained, perhaps by the [Birth Control] Federation [of America] as to our ideals and the goal that we hope to reach. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."

What Margaret Sanger Really Said About Eugenics and Race: "That’s not to say that Sanger didn’t also make some deeply disturbing statements in support of eugenics, the now-discredited movement to improve the overall health and fitness of humankind through selective breeding. She did, and very publicly. In a 1921 article, she wrote that, “the most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective.

“Abortion as black genocide”: inside the black anti-abortion movement: While anti-abortion activism has attempted to link abortion to racism for decades, the argument that abortion poses a unique threat to black lives has seen an increase in attention in recent years, the result of a collaboration between the conservative black church, black anti-abortion activists, and some white anti-abortion organizations.

NOTE: Obviously the black population of the US is not inherently Leftist, but when it's all said and done the Democratic Party is still monolithically what the majority supports (even the religious dip their foot into that well). The same goes for the majority of the other population groups which the Party depends upon (feminists, Muslims, LGBT, etc). Even if not all the members of each support radical southpaw goals, they are nevertheless incrementally empowering those agendas bit by bit. The distractions of the political foe on the "other side" cause them to not be fully conscious of how potentially suspicious they are of each other (in terms of public displays and confrontations, anyway).

- - - footnote - - -

{*} Marxism has a mixed history with LGBT, but in the 21st-century it is fully on board with opportunistically using LGBT to gain incremental control of governments. The thing to remember is that once the latter is acquired, the very necessity of its party authoritarianism leans it toward its own brand of nationalism and its classic appeal to protecting the population from the "assorted degeneracies of Western capitalism". The old USSR and China were remarkable prudes and (non-overt) sexists that would have given fundamentalist Abrahmaic religion a run for its money.
(Nov 11, 2020 09:07 PM)C C Wrote: [ -> ]
(Nov 8, 2020 02:34 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: [ -> ]How long will Biden euphoria last? Did he make any promises he can break? What group that supports him now will be the first to have second thoughts about that decision?

Nothing special here but some things are inevitable. IOW you can’t please everybody.

Speaking of not being able to please everybody...  Genocide-wise, abortion could be a rocky road even if the Left only had itself to contend with (sans conservatives, centrists, traditionalists, etc). Since its very ideological bedrock consists of either creating or discriminating various oppressor/oppressed (bully/victim) scenarios taking place in the world, which it then politically exploits (or uses to maintain power).   

The various factions that Biden is currently grange-manager over would then have only each other to project that basic, tactical paranoia upon (i.e., one group's self-interests infringing upon another's, as well as their pet conspiracies). In addition to the below, there is fear of LGBT genocide{*}, female genocide, Muslim genocide, etc. 

Most women getting abortions today are living in poverty. Donations from white affluent men along with support for funding abortion and setting up more clinics in poor areas thus in turn feeds the Black genocide conspiracies revolving around birth control and abortion, with their roots in early sterilization policies and Margaret Sanger's (arguably) misconstrued quote:

"The ministers work is also important and also he should be trained, perhaps by the [Birth Control] Federation [of America] as to our ideals and the goal that we hope to reach. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."

What Margaret Sanger Really Said About Eugenics and Race: "That’s not to say that Sanger didn’t also make some deeply disturbing statements in support of eugenics, the now-discredited movement to improve the overall health and fitness of humankind through selective breeding. She did, and very publicly. In a 1921 article, she wrote that, “the most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective.

“Abortion as black genocide”: inside the black anti-abortion movement: While anti-abortion activism has attempted to link abortion to racism for decades, the argument that abortion poses a unique threat to black lives has seen an increase in attention in recent years, the result of a collaboration between the conservative black church, black anti-abortion activists, and some white anti-abortion organizations.

NOTE: Obviously the black population of the US is not inherently Leftist, but when it's all said and done the Democratic Party is still monolithically what the majority supports (even the religious dip their foot into that well). The same goes for the majority of the other population groups which the Party depends upon (feminists, Muslims, LGBT, etc). Even if not all the members of each support radical southpaw goals, they are nevertheless incrementally empowering those agendas bit by bit. The distractions of the political foe on the "other side" cause them to not be fully conscious of how potentially suspicious they are of each other (in terms of public displays and confrontations, anyway).

- - - footnote - - -

{*} Marxism has a mixed history with LGBT, but in the 21st-century it is fully on board with opportunistically using LGBT to gain incremental control of governments. The thing to remember is that once the latter is acquired, the very necessity of its party authoritarianism leans it toward its own brand of nationalism and its classic appeal to protecting the population from the "assorted degeneracies of Western capitalism". The old USSR and China were remarkable prudes and (non-overt) sexists that would have given fundamentalist Abrahmaic religion a run for its money.

Great post. Federal funding will only exacerbate things.
I asked my daughter last week whether she was ready to pull the plug on her last pregnancy if tests proved baby was defective. She said they would've without any hesitation, legally of course. Didn't have to and now I have two grandkids. My wife and I also agreed to a legal abortion years ago so I respect daughters decision. 

I try hard not to be racist but I always get the feeling it shows. Then again I don't care if someone thinks I'm racist by default because I'm white. I didn't ask to be born nor could I pick my parents. Not often I read anything on racism but I do listen occasionally.....

I don't know who this guy is but enjoyed the TED talk. Probably because I learned some history. When it comes to racism I'm going to look at Slavs in a different light after this. 

I think educators need to step it up, shouldn't have taken all this guy's research skills to discover what most of us should know but don't. Two things, we're all genetically equal (I knew that part) and if you want to find an cause common to most evils then follow the money (never dawned on me). 

18 mins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIZDtqWX6Fk
(Nov 11, 2020 09:50 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: [ -> ][...] I don't know who this guy is but enjoyed the TED talk. Probably because I learned some history. When it comes to racism I'm going to look at Slavs in a different light after this. 

I think educators need to step it up, shouldn't have taken all this guy's research skills to discover what most of us should know but don't. Two things, we're all genetically equal (I knew that part) and if you want to find an cause common to most evils then follow the money (never dawned on me). 

18 mins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIZDtqWX6Fk

I once thought that, too, and really grabbed onto it back then. But while Slavs were indeed easily lorded over in history and still are (communist strong-men and then Putin), "slave" and "Slav" probably don't have an etymological association.

Myths of Russian History: Does the word 'Slav' derive from 'slave'?
https://www.rbth.com/arts/history/2017/0...ave_804967

But yeah, so-called "white people" in general (not just the above) had their subjugation episodes in the past, too.

And racism is a tool.

Altruism can a deceptive tool, also (Ayn Rand experienced socialism first-hand -- she wasn't batty with regard to everything). Missionaries used strategic altruism to help convert natives as a forerunner preparation to full-scale colonization. A kind of irony that collectivist atheists probably borrowed the "helpful social crusader" facade from such "Christianity recruited for royal government service". (Though it's unlikely to be formally admitted in any ideological texts -- alternative inspirations substituted instead.)

BTW... What a duh idiot I've been for years, not realizing that there's a transcript link under the menu dots of those videos. Sure speeds things up if you can read one lickety-split ahead of watching it.