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(Feb 23, 2020 03:51 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]Leigha, what is your view on this verse by St. Paul? Do you agree with it?

"Or  do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?  Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were  washed, but you were  sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NASB)

By my cursory count, these "unrighteous" that Paul hates so much comprise just about everybody on earth. What is the fate of all these horrible sinners if they don't believe in Jesus? Eternal hellfire?
Hi MR, I’m visiting friends out of town this weekend, so I’ll reply later.
(Feb 23, 2020 09:31 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, "about everybody on earth"? What a horrendously pessimistic view of your fellow humans. At least you quoted the bit about redemption.

I'm just quoting St. Paul's view. The condemnation of fornicators includes just about everyone on earth. I guess we're all doomed for getting laid. Not to mention coveting and reviling.
Like I said, at least you included the part about redemption. That means that everyone has a chance, even the sinners.
(Feb 24, 2020 12:57 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Like I said, at least you included the part about redemption. That means that everyone has a chance, even the sinners.

Right..believe in Jesus and you won't get sent to hell. Think I'll pass..
No, it's quit making bad choices and live a happier life. Hell is just a state people put themselves in.
(Feb 24, 2020 03:27 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]No, it's quit making bad choices and live a happier life. Hell is just a state people put themselves in.

That's not what the Bible teaches. Believe in Jesus or be cast into hell. It's the whole message of the gospel.

Revelation 21:
8 "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
(Feb 23, 2020 03:51 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]Leigha, what is your view on this verse by St. Paul? Do you agree with it?

"Or  do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?  Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were  washed, but you were  sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NASB)

By my cursory count, these "unrighteous" that Paul hates so much comprise just about everybody on earth. What is the fate of all these horrible sinners if they don't believe in Jesus? Eternal hellfire?
Firstly, I'm not a ''fan'' of Paul's approach or delivery style, but I'm reminded that before he became Paul, he was known as ''Saul.'' As Saul, he persecuted and murdered many Christians, but once he began following Jesus' teachings (he had a conversion of heart and mind), his entire life changed. He yearned to preach the ''good news'' because he had repented from his sins, and saw himself in others' pain and brokenness. Paul also felt that Jesus' second coming was fast approaching, could happen at any moment. The Apostles felt this way, shortly after Jesus' resurrection. It is hard to picture the moment, because we weren't there, but if you felt that you had the cure for cancer, you'd want everyone to know about it as quickly as possible. Likewise, Jesus is a healer, and that I have come to believe. That's the first step, MR with any belief system of any kind, really. You believe without question for example, the eye witness accounts reporting of alien UFOs. It's not that much different with faith; I believe that Jesus really existed, died and rose again, and brought with him, a message of hope and healing. Not a message of fear and despair should we not heed his teachings, but one of encouragement. I believe in God, a Creator. If you don't believe in God, then it will of course be challenging to believe any of the stories within the Bible. I don't only believe because the ''Bible tells me so,'' but through prayer and experience, I've come to believe.

Faith is a journey, a quest of sorts. I've learned much from Buddhism, and other belief systems, but Christianity allows for a personal ''relationship'' with Jesus/God. It's more than a set of do's and don'ts for me, anyway. So, my opinion of why Paul said what he said, was that he believed the end was near...and he wanted to share how Jesus changed his life, and how he could change theirs. I believe in the idea of hell, as a ''place'' where God is absent. And if people don't believe in Jesus, or his message, why would they want to spend the afterlife with a god that they don't believe in? 

Also, the entire NT is not a set of stories chastising sinners, and condemning them to hell. But, Jesus did say that the gate to hell is very wide. (Matthew 7:13) For a believer, that warning can be ominous, but it is what it is. After finishing all of the Gospels recently, I do wonder why Paul seemed to focus on things that Jesus didn't. Jesus' greatest commandments were to love God with all of our hearts, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. He treated women equally, and didn't make mention of women ''speaking out in church'' as Paul had done. In fact, Jesus witnessed to women more than men, according to the Bible accounts. We can't ever know each and every reason as to why the Bible states certain things, but to me, the totality of Christianity has more to do with hope, than despair...more to do with love, than hate. So, I don't see Paul as hate-filled, as much as wanting to share how Jesus changed his life, and how he is worth knowing. If you're a believer, it will come across differently, although, I can only surmise that Paul may have felt he needed to overcompensate for his past life of murdering Christians. (in addition to believing that Jesus' second coming was imminent)

(Feb 23, 2020 03:56 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: [ -> ]Leigha/Wegs mentioned Bible study. I can sort of get that, like being interested in its philosophy I suppose. Maybe there's some historical significance too.  So I ask the question: is it possible to study a belief, in particular a god? Where are the facts, evidence, successful experimentation to suggest it's even true or real? I wouldn't know where to start and the internet isn't much help either. So perhaps no one truly studies a god belief, everyone realizes there's not much scientifically to go on. That takes me to theology...if that doesn't study god then what does ? My best guess is that theology is more of a study of religion than god(s). So back to Bible studying, what exactly is that? Is god included?
Since my Bible study is open to non-believers as well, I'm looking for complete engagement of anyone who wishes to chime in, as to their understanding of the Bible. I believe there are historical facts that serve as the backdrop to some of the spiritual stories within the Bible, but whether or not the reader comes away believing that God is real, Jesus existed and the OT is a vast foreshadowing of Jesus' coming (the Messiah)...will vary from person to person. Of course, I want there to be a fellowship aspect to the Bible study, among believers but I'm interested to see what I may learn from others, and how they view the Bible. It's one of the few books out there that everyone seems to know so much, or so they think. I'm a little nervous, though...suppose a lot of people show up (I sent 500 invitations/flyers throughout the community) and I'm unprepared? I'm not looking to ''lead'' the group, as much as facilitate.
Quote:Revelation 21:
8 "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

I don't see that saying who does the consigning.
It's assumed (but stated plainly in other parts of the NT) that those who don't believe and follow Jesus, will be ''banished'' to hell. (As an aside, ''second death'' referring to a spiritual death, the ''first death'' being when we pass on, physically.)
Quote: I'm a little nervous, though...suppose a lot of people show up (I sent 500 invitations/flyers throughout the community) and I'm unprepared? I'm not looking to ''lead'' the group, as much as facilitate.


If I recall correctly there are over 700 different sects, denominations or whatever they're called of the Christian religion. Theoretically then, it is possible that you get 500 responders each representing a different take. If half of them bring a friend then you may against all odds have every denomination covered. I doubt very much if you get past the first verse but who knows, you might get lucky. Asking that many people their interpretation, of one of many translations, of centuries old texts is quite an endeavour to say the least. I've always maintained that belief, faith or whatever should be a private affair. I realize religion is sort of all encompassing and not all belief but I think it will be difficult to separate the two in a bible study. If it was me, the first time I heard the word God or Jesus then that would require a warning being issued and if there's a repeat then say goodbye to that individual. In other words you will need a rulebook, if not now then once it's started.  Wink