"Bullying is the use of coercion, force, or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) of an imbalance of physical or social power. This imbalance distinguishes bullying from conflict. There is no universal definition of bullying. It is widely agreed upon that bullying is a subcategory of aggressive behavior characterized by the following three minimum criteria: (1) hostile intent, (2) imbalance of power, and (3) repetition over a period of time. Bullying may thus be defined as the activity of repeated, aggressive behavior intended to hurt another individual, physically, mentally, or emotionally."----
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying
(Jul 14, 2019 06:43 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]"Bullying is the use of coercion, force, or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) of an imbalance of physical or social power. This imbalance distinguishes bullying from conflict. There is no universal definition of bullying. It is widely agreed upon that bullying is a subcategory of aggressive behavior characterized by the following three minimum criteria: (1) hostile intent, (2) imbalance of power, and (3) repetition over a period of time. Bullying may thus be defined as the activity of repeated, aggressive behavior intended to hurt another individual, physically, mentally, or emotionally."---- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying
Quote:aggressive behavior
and passive aggressive coercion
syne the troll wants to create fear & hostility inside the thread.
(Jul 14, 2019 06:23 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 14, 2019 06:12 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Yet, again, you fail to explain how the dictionary definition covers harassment. 
I don't think I know what you're asking, then. I believe bullying and harassment can be interchangeable terms, given certain conditions/circumstances.
What you "believe" doesn't change nor is compatible with the definition. Having to qualify it with "certain conditions/circumstances" simply means you are misusing the word...where you should just be using "harassment". Words mean stuff. If you can't support your usage with a standard definition, then you are confused.
Quote:Quote:You just demanding that something is bullying does not magically make it so. While shoving and pushing would legally be assault, ridicule and humiliation are not bullying, no matter how frequent. Again, people, kids or adults, only engage in verbal attacks where there is a payoff. You have to feed them for them to find it worth continuing.
Oh, I don't disagree, but you know everyone isn't the same. Bullies pick on what they believe is the weakest of the lot. But, there are some people who are shy, and more vulnerable than others. I agree ''don't become a target'' to begin with, but that's easier said than done, especially for kids.
And kids need to learn how to deal with those situation on their own, without adults interceding all the time. That way they know how to handle it as adults themselves. The more vulnerable are the most in need of learning those skills. It's not about avoidance. It's about simply not internalizing others acting out their own insecurities. The only harm done is the individual voluntarily accepting and internalizing it.
Quote:Quote:"Wait for things to escalate to assault"? If there is any indication of that then there is likely a threat of violence. Why would ridicule and humiliation alone escalate to assault?
I'm reminded of a relationship one of my friends had with a guy who would humiliate her, ''bully'' her...verbally. Verbal abuse, I suppose you could say. No threats verbally of violence, until one day, he shoved her. Then, a few weeks later, assaulted her. Relationships are different than what we're talking about here, but it shows bullying in a different light.
Shoving is assault, and verbal abuse in relationships is well-known to escalate. But you were talking about kids, not adult relationships. If relationships are different then they do nothing to make your point.
Quote:But, kids can certainly start off with relentless ridicule, and they simply up the ante one day, and shove their target.
Then it changes from harassment or teasing to bullying, otherwise you're equating the two and are saying that an insult is equal to physical violence...which is complete nonsense. If you call them the same thing then a child who is teased thinks they are justified in hitting the other child. That is a very bad lesson to teach children. Be mindful of how you misuse language.
Quote:Going back to your story about you as a kid - I think you were being bullied before it became physical. (if it was relentless) If you weren't physically harmed, would you have considered it ''harmless teasing?'' Be honest. 
No, there are kids who tease and then there are kids who bully. Bullies might also tease (often while being violent, or when they know they can't get away with violence), but teasers don't always bully. Whatever escalation occurred did so long before an established pattern of bullying. So there is no "escalation" on a per target basis. Violence is just commonplace for a bully. Yes, teasing is harmless. The only way words harm anyone is if they themselves accept them as being true or having value.
But children think many harmless things are harmful. Some children think getting their hair cut hurts, some cry over being made to eat broccoli or go to bed, excited dogs, Santa, etc.. Children are dumb and have to be taught that just because you fear or do not like it does not mean it is harmful. There's a reason children are taught "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me". Did no one ever teach you that one? O_o
(Jul 14, 2019 06:43 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]"Bullying is the use of coercion, force, or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) of an imbalance of physical or social power. This imbalance distinguishes bullying from conflict. There is no universal definition of bullying. It is widely agreed upon that bullying is a subcategory of aggressive behavior characterized by the following three minimum criteria: (1) hostile intent, (2) imbalance of power, and (3) repetition over a period of time. Bullying may thus be defined as the activity of repeated, aggressive behavior intended to hurt another individual, physically, mentally, or emotionally."---- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying
Pop-psychology is not a standard definition. It's just misusing words to sell books and publish papers.
(Jul 14, 2019 07:34 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote: [ -> ]and passive aggressive coercion
syne the troll wants to create fear & hostility inside the thread.
Apparently RU feels threatened.
(Jul 14, 2019 07:35 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 14, 2019 06:23 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 14, 2019 06:12 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Yet, again, you fail to explain how the dictionary definition covers harassment.
I don't think I know what you're asking, then. I believe bullying and harassment can be interchangeable terms, given certain conditions/circumstances.
What you "believe" doesn't change nor is compatible with the definition. Having to qualify it with "certain conditions/circumstances" simply means you are misusing the word...where you should just be using "harassment". Words mean stuff. If you can't support your usage with a standard definition, then you are confused.
Quote:Quote:You just demanding that something is bullying does not magically make it so. While shoving and pushing would legally be assault, ridicule and humiliation are not bullying, no matter how frequent. Again, people, kids or adults, only engage in verbal attacks where there is a payoff. You have to feed them for them to find it worth continuing.
Oh, I don't disagree, but you know everyone isn't the same. Bullies pick on what they believe is the weakest of the lot. But, there are some people who are shy, and more vulnerable than others. I agree ''don't become a target'' to begin with, but that's easier said than done, especially for kids.
And kids need to learn how to deal with those situation on their own, without adults interceding all the time. That way they know how to handle it as adults themselves. The more vulnerable are the most in need of learning those skills. It's not about avoidance. It's about simply not internalizing others acting out their own insecurities. The only harm done is the individual voluntarily accepting and internalizing it.
Quote:Quote:"Wait for things to escalate to assault"? If there is any indication of that then there is likely a threat of violence. Why would ridicule and humiliation alone escalate to assault?
I'm reminded of a relationship one of my friends had with a guy who would humiliate her, ''bully'' her...verbally. Verbal abuse, I suppose you could say. No threats verbally of violence, until one day, he shoved her. Then, a few weeks later, assaulted her. Relationships are different than what we're talking about here, but it shows bullying in a different light.
Shoving is assault, and verbal abuse in relationships is well-known to escalate. But you were talking about kids, not adult relationships. If relationships are different then they do nothing to make your point.
Quote:But, kids can certainly start off with relentless ridicule, and they simply up the ante one day, and shove their target.
Then it changes from harassment or teasing to bullying, otherwise you're equating the two and are saying that an insult is equal to physical violence...which is complete nonsense. If you call them the same thing then a child who is teased thinks they are justified in hitting the other child. That is a very bad lesson to teach children. Be mindful of how you misuse language.
Quote:Going back to your story about you as a kid - I think you were being bullied before it became physical. (if it was relentless) If you weren't physically harmed, would you have considered it ''harmless teasing?'' Be honest.
No, there are kids who tease and then there are kids who bully. Bullies might also tease (often while being violent, or when they know they can't get away with violence), but teasers don't always bully. Whatever escalation occurred did so long before an established pattern of bullying. So there is no "escalation" on a per target basis. Violence is just commonplace for a bully. Yes, teasing is harmless. The only way words harm anyone is if they themselves accept them as being true or having value.
But children think many harmless things are harmful. Some children think getting their hair cut hurts, some cry over being made to eat broccoli or go to bed, excited dogs, Santa, etc.. Children are dumb and have to be taught that just because you fear or do not like it does not mean it is harmful. There's a reason children are taught "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me". Did no one ever teach you that one? O_o
(Jul 14, 2019 06:43 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]"Bullying is the use of coercion, force, or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) of an imbalance of physical or social power. This imbalance distinguishes bullying from conflict. There is no universal definition of bullying. It is widely agreed upon that bullying is a subcategory of aggressive behavior characterized by the following three minimum criteria: (1) hostile intent, (2) imbalance of power, and (3) repetition over a period of time. Bullying may thus be defined as the activity of repeated, aggressive behavior intended to hurt another individual, physically, mentally, or emotionally."---- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying
Pop-psychology is not a standard definition. It's just misusing words to sell books and publish papers.
(Jul 14, 2019 07:34 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote: [ -> ]and passive aggressive coercion
syne the troll wants to create fear & hostility inside the thread.
Apparently RU feels threatened.
Quote:Pop-psychology is not a standard definition. It's just misusing words to sell books and publish papers.
Christian conservative sock puppet comment ...
put another penny in the slot
step up and buy your fortune
10 a penny ways to label science as being false ?
while attempting to grandiose your own position to set up a position of authority ... ?
coercive proxy inference to define narrative culture model normalcy ...
you think transgender is a psychiatric disorder ?
homosexuality is a life style choice ?
Science has determined that a fetus is human life, a transgender still has either male or female DNA, and gay/transwoman brains are not the same as female brains.
Positive development
Some have argued that bullying can teach life lessons and instill strength. Helene Guldberg, a child development academic, sparked controversy when she argued that being a target of bullying can teach a child "how to manage disputes and boost their ability to interact with others", and that teachers should not intervene, but leave children to respond to the bullying themselves.[71]
The teaching of such anti-bullying coping skills to "would-be-targets" and to others has been found to be an effective long term means of reducing bullying incidence rates and a valuable skill-set for individuals.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying#P...evelopment
The same page MR cited, and exactly what I've been saying.
One basic distinction often made in the literature on peer-on-peer aggression is between bullying and teasing. Bullying is an overt act of aggression, whose intention is to harm the victim.
...
Teasing, as the word is usually used by people who study peer interactions, is different from bullying, at least from the perspective of the perpetrator.
Let me say that again. FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE PERPETRATOR and of an outside observer, teasing is different from bullying. From the perspective of the victim, this distinction may be unimportant. Teasing can also turn into bullying. But the distinction between bullying and teasing is important, because the way teasing and the way bullying work socially are very different.
- https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/...-and-girls
So if you've been personally teased/verbally harassed, but not physically bullied, you may feel they are the same. But that is only your subjective feeling.
(Jul 14, 2019 08:41 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Science has determined that a fetus is human life, a transgender still has either male or female DNA, and gay/transwoman brains are not the same as female brains.
Positive development
Some have argued that bullying can teach life lessons and instill strength. Helene Guldberg, a child development academic, sparked controversy when she argued that being a target of bullying can teach a child "how to manage disputes and boost their ability to interact with others", and that teachers should not intervene, but leave children to respond to the bullying themselves.[71]
The teaching of such anti-bullying coping skills to "would-be-targets" and to others has been found to be an effective long term means of reducing bullying incidence rates and a valuable skill-set for individuals.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying#P...evelopment
The same page MR cited, and exactly what I've been saying.
One basic distinction often made in the literature on peer-on-peer aggression is between bullying and teasing. Bullying is an overt act of aggression, whose intention is to harm the victim.
...
Teasing, as the word is usually used by people who study peer interactions, is different from bullying, at least from the perspective of the perpetrator.
Let me say that again. FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE PERPETRATOR and of an outside observer, teasing is different from bullying. From the perspective of the victim, this distinction may be unimportant. Teasing can also turn into bullying. But the distinction between bullying and teasing is important, because the way teasing and the way bullying work socially are very different.
- https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/...-and-girls
So if you've been personally teased/verbally harassed, but not physically bullied, you may feel they are the same. But that is only your subjective feeling.
There's numerous studies that suggest Bullying from childhood can effect people even years later, such as creating PTSD. Strength from being bullied can only exist if the person has stood up to the bully (and they perceive they bettered them), but for the most part the bully in those instances has likely reduced their bullying either because they found some other target or from external pressure (Parents, Tutors etc).
Collective teasing can lead to isolationism which in turn while creating a stronger level of independence in both thought and act, can also cause problems with social interaction and trust. A previous victim can see all those that stood by as part of the problem. (unfortunately that's part of the problem of those that turn violent to respond to not just the bully but the rubber necking onlookers.)
From the same article Syne quoted from:
"Verbal
This is any bullying that is conducted by speaking. Calling names, spreading rumors, threatening somebody, and making fun of others are all forms of verbal bullying. Verbal bullying is one of the most common types of bullying. In verbal bullying the main weapon the bully uses is their voice. In many cases, verbal bullying is the province of girls. Girls are more subtle (and can be more devastating), in general, than boys. Girls use verbal bullying, as well as social exclusion techniques, to dominate and control other individuals and show their superiority and power. However, there are also many boys with subtlety enough to use verbal techniques for domination, and who are practiced in using words when they want to avoid the trouble that can come with physically bullying someone else."----
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying#P...evelopment
(Jul 14, 2019 07:35 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, teasing is harmless.
Teasing is done in a playful way. It's not meant to harm anyone. That's not what she's talking about.
Syne Wrote:The only way words harm anyone is if they themselves accept them as being true or having value.
Really? You might want to rethink that one, e.g., ill will, malice, etc.
(Jul 14, 2019 02:00 AM)confused2 Wrote: [ -> ]Culled from another forum ...
anon Wrote:Dredging the realms of composite realities i find traces of myself faintly shining like sparkly glitter almost washed down the drain.
I'm not sure quite what it means but I think it is important. Finding, choosing, picking what is important is .. to be continued.
Self-value, perhaps. Don't give up on yourself.
(Jul 14, 2019 11:43 AM)stryder Wrote: [ -> ]There's numerous studies that suggest Bullying from childhood can effect people even years later, such as creating PTSD. Strength from being bullied can only exist if the person has stood up to the bully (and they perceive they bettered them), but for the most part the bully in those instances has likely reduced their bullying either because they found some other target or from external pressure (Parents, Tutors etc).
Collective teasing can lead to isolationism which in turn while creating a stronger level of independence in both thought and act, can also cause problems with social interaction and trust. A previous victim can see all those that stood by as part of the problem. (unfortunately that's part of the problem of those that turn violent to respond to not just the bully but the rubber necking onlookers.)
Resilience factors that may reduce the risk of PTSD include:
Seeking out support from other people, such as friends and family
Finding a support group after a traumatic event
Learning to feel good about one’s own actions in the face of danger
Having a coping strategy, or a way of getting through the bad event and learning from it
Being able to act and respond effectively despite feeling fear
- https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publicat...ndex.shtml
When people claim to suffer PTSD from things like Trump getting elected, it's clear that coping skills are a major factor. And lumping teasing in with bullying is no way to teach those necessary coping skills. That actually makes the task more daunting rather than less so, where you lose the ability to approach the problem gradually. If it's all bullying, it's all equally as bad and intimidating.
You don't have to stand up to a bully to develop good coping skills.
(Jul 14, 2019 02:08 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]From the same article Syne quoted from:
"Verbal
This is any bullying that is conducted by speaking. Calling names, spreading rumors, threatening somebody, and making fun of others are all forms of verbal bullying. Verbal bullying is one of the most common types of bullying. In verbal bullying the main weapon the bully uses is their voice. In many cases, verbal bullying is the province of girls. Girls are more subtle (and can be more devastating), in general, than boys. Girls use verbal bullying, as well as social exclusion techniques, to dominate and control other individuals and show their superiority and power. However, there are also many boys with subtlety enough to use verbal techniques for domination, and who are practiced in using words when they want to avoid the trouble that can come with physically bullying someone else."---- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying#P...evelopment
You mean from the same article you initially quoted. Don't pretend that I endorsed the whole thing, as what I quoted is actually contrary to the bulk of it.
While threatening someone is bullying, lumping in a lot of lesser behaviors does no one any favors. It just allows them to play victim and blame others with so much less provocation. But I'm sure you know all about that.
(Jul 14, 2019 02:13 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 14, 2019 07:35 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, teasing is harmless.
Teasing is done in a playful way. It's not meant to harm anyone. That's not what she's talking about.
Again, you cannot be harmed by words unless you lend them credence yourself.
Quote:Syne Wrote:The only way words harm anyone is if they themselves accept them as being true or having value.
Really? You might want to rethink that one, e.g., ill will, malice, etc.
We're not talking legally actionable words, deary.
Wow, a lot of bullied people feeling they need to justify their experience.
So, it's only bullying if it's legally actionable?
On another topic, there was a local news report today about a flesh-eating bacteria in the ocean, and warning people to stay out of the water. I kinda wanted to head to the beach today, but that sounds too scary.
