Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum

(Nov 8, 2020 03:06 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone watch Biden’s speech tonight? He seems to have a strong faith. I like that he’s not afraid to share that.

Really? You believe a career politician lying to you?

(Nov 8, 2020 03:10 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]

(Nov 8, 2020 03:06 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone watch Biden’s speech tonight? He seems to have a strong faith. I like that he’s not afraid to share that.

Really? You believe a career politician lying to you?

He’s lying about his faith? I think we (people in general) have a tendency that if we dislike policies, we claim the person is a liar. You have to make the best of it, Syne.

(Nov 8, 2020 03:25 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]

(Nov 8, 2020 03:10 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]

(Nov 8, 2020 03:06 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone watch Biden’s speech tonight? He seems to have a strong faith. I like that he’s not afraid to share that.

Really? You believe a career politician lying to you?

He’s lying about his faith? I think we (people in general) have a tendency that if we dislike policies, we claim the person is a liar. You have to make the best of it, Syne.

No, he's lying because of his actions. If you're going to be a politician and play the religious card, you'd be smart to not be a Catholic: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/29/politics/...index.html

It was one of the first stress tests of Joe Biden’s presidential campaign: A sudden reversal of his decades-long support for restricting federal funding of abortions.

The move seemed sure to hurt the former vice president with Catholics, particularly those in the Midwest, whose support will be critical to winning the Democratic primary and the general election. But so far, Biden has faced little criticism over his shift on abortion funding relative to other aspects of his record, and polls show that he remains Catholic Democrats’ overwhelming favorite in the presidential field.
https://apnews.com/article/d3493cf23d844...3677771249

See, he wants YOU to pay (and be morally culpable) for abortions, whether you think they're moral or not. If you think you can "make the best of" that, that's on you.

(Nov 8, 2020 04:07 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]

(Nov 8, 2020 03:25 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]

(Nov 8, 2020 03:10 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]

(Nov 8, 2020 03:06 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone watch Biden’s speech tonight? He seems to have a strong faith. I like that he’s not afraid to share that.

Really? You believe a career politician lying to you?

He’s lying about his faith? I think we (people in general) have a tendency that if we dislike policies, we claim the person is a liar. You have to make the best of it, Syne.

No, he's lying because of his actions. If you're going to be a politician and play the religious card, you'd be smart to not be a Catholic: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/29/politics/...index.html

It was one of the first stress tests of Joe Biden’s presidential campaign: A sudden reversal of his decades-long support for restricting federal funding of abortions.

The move seemed sure to hurt the former vice president with Catholics, particularly those in the Midwest, whose support will be critical to winning the Democratic primary and the general election. But so far, Biden has faced little criticism over his shift on abortion funding relative to other aspects of his record, and polls show that he remains Catholic Democrats’ overwhelming favorite in the presidential field.
https://apnews.com/article/d3493cf23d844...3677771249

See, he wants YOU to pay (and be morally culpable) for abortions, whether you think they're moral or not. If you think you can "make the best of" that, that's on you.

Can’t open that link for some reason.

I thought he dropped his support for repealing the Hyde Amendment. 

(Nov 8, 2020 05:35 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]

(Nov 8, 2020 04:07 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]No, he's lying because of his actions. If you're going to be a politician and play the religious card, you'd be smart to not be a Catholic: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/29/politics/...index.html

It was one of the first stress tests of Joe Biden’s presidential campaign: A sudden reversal of his decades-long support for restricting federal funding of abortions.

The move seemed sure to hurt the former vice president with Catholics, particularly those in the Midwest, whose support will be critical to winning the Democratic primary and the general election. But so far, Biden has faced little criticism over his shift on abortion funding relative to other aspects of his record, and polls show that he remains Catholic Democrats’ overwhelming favorite in the presidential field.
https://apnews.com/article/d3493cf23d844...3677771249

See, he wants YOU to pay (and be morally culpable) for abortions, whether you think they're moral or not. If you think you can "make the best of" that, that's on you.

Can’t open that link for some reason.

I thought he dropped his support for repealing the Hyde Amendment. 

They both work for me. The first one is about him being denied communion, and here's something more recent about his stance on the Hyde amendment:

Planned Parenthood Action Fund, the political wing of Planned Parenthood, announced its endorsement of presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden for president Monday, praising him for his record of expanding health care for women.
...
The statement even goes on to point out that Biden is committed to repealing the Hyde Amendment, which largely bans federal funds from being used for most abortions.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-th...blogHeader


In the summer of 2019, under pressure from Democratic activists, Biden backed off of his long-standing support for the Hyde Amendment, which prohibits the use of federal funds to pay for most abortions.
...
When Biden campaigned for president in 2008, the bishop in Scranton, Joseph Martino, vowed to deny the candidate Communion because he was too supportive of abortion rights.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc...20/616881/

So he's been pro-abortion since 2008, and against the Hyde amendment since 2019. Easily hidden from low-information voters.

---

(Nov 8, 2020 04:14 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t...e=5FCE1633

Not his seat yet, and plenty Trump can do in the meantime. But good to see someone's finding a use for Creepy Joe's sexual harassment photo album.

(Nov 8, 2020 05:50 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]

(Nov 8, 2020 05:35 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]

(Nov 8, 2020 04:07 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]No, he's lying because of his actions. If you're going to be a politician and play the religious card, you'd be smart to not be a Catholic: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/29/politics/...index.html

It was one of the first stress tests of Joe Biden’s presidential campaign: A sudden reversal of his decades-long support for restricting federal funding of abortions.

The move seemed sure to hurt the former vice president with Catholics, particularly those in the Midwest, whose support will be critical to winning the Democratic primary and the general election. But so far, Biden has faced little criticism over his shift on abortion funding relative to other aspects of his record, and polls show that he remains Catholic Democrats’ overwhelming favorite in the presidential field.
https://apnews.com/article/d3493cf23d844...3677771249

See, he wants YOU to pay (and be morally culpable) for abortions, whether you think they're moral or not. If you think you can "make the best of" that, that's on you.

Can’t open that link for some reason.

I thought he dropped his support for repealing the Hyde Amendment. 

They both work for me. The first one is about him being denied communion, and here's something more recent about his stance on the Hyde amendment:

Planned Parenthood Action Fund, the political wing of Planned Parenthood, announced its endorsement of presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden for president Monday, praising him for his record of expanding health care for women.
...
The statement even goes on to point out that Biden is committed to repealing the Hyde Amendment, which largely bans federal funds from being used for most abortions.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-th...blogHeader


In the summer of 2019, under pressure from Democratic activists, Biden backed off of his long-standing support for the Hyde Amendment, which prohibits the use of federal funds to pay for most abortions.
...
When Biden campaigned for president in 2008, the bishop in Scranton, Joseph Martino, vowed to deny the candidate Communion because he was too supportive of abortion rights.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc...20/616881/

So he's been pro-abortion since 2008, and against the Hyde amendment since 2019. Easily hidden from low-information voters.

---

(Nov 8, 2020 04:14 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t...e=5FCE1633

Not his seat yet, and plenty Trump can do in the meantime. But good to see someone's finding a use for Creepy Joe's sexual harassment photo album.

I don't think he is personally pro-abortion, he just feels that he doesn't have the right to force his view onto others. Not an unsurprising view considering he may think of abortion laws as coming under the umbrella of separation of church and state. I'd guess that's how he squares up his religious side against law.

But if he tries to repeal the Hyde Amendment (after posting my question above, I read that that he has changed his mind again on that, and will attempt to do away with it) - he will have a potentially tough road if Republicans hold onto their Senate majority.

From a spiritual view:

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. Romans 13:1–2

I've come to view that passage as God doesn't want us to respect those in authority necessarily because they're good people (I don't think Joe Biden is a bad person, however, but he's flawed like the rest of us) rather, God wants us to respect that He allowed that person into a leadership role. That's a tough one, because there are some pretty despotic rulers around the world, but I'm just taking the passage at face value. Of course this doesn't mean that we should accept immoral behaviors from our leaders that affect us or others, but believers have faith that God will work things for the good in these situations, if man-made laws violate His law. (With that in mind, missions around the world, activism here in the US, etc are how people can get involved)

(Nov 8, 2020 06:33 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think he is personally pro-abortion, he just feels that he doesn't have the right to force his view onto others. Not an unsurprising view considering he may think of abortion laws as coming under the umbrella of separation of church and state. I'd guess that's how he squares up his religious side against law.

But if he tries to repeal the Hyde Amendment (after posting my question above, I read that that he has changed his mind again on that, and will attempt to do away with it) - he will have a potentially tough road if Republicans hold onto their Senate majority.

What part of "wants to repeal the Hyde amendment" don't you understand? That would force YOUR tax money to fund abortion. That is literally forcing his view onto others. I don't understand why you're so keen on making excuses for him, unless...

Quote:From a spiritual view:

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. Romans 13:1–2

I've come to view that passage as God doesn't want us to respect those in authority necessarily because they're good people (I don't think Joe Biden is a bad person, however, but he's flawed like the rest of us) rather, God wants us to respect that He allowed that person into a leadership role. That's a tough one, because there are some pretty despotic rulers around the world, but I'm just taking the passage at face value. Of course this doesn't mean that we should accept immoral behaviors from our leaders that affect us or others, but believers have faith that God will work things for the good in these situations, if man-made laws violate His law. (With that in mind, missions around the world, activism here in the US, etc are how people can get involved)

So you excuse everyone who didn't resist the orders of Hitler?
"For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong." - Romans 13:3a
The Jews in Nazi Germany didn't do wrong, but they certainly had reason to feel terror.

Romans 13 only speaks of bringing "judgement on themselves" from rulers who "bear the sword", not God's judgement, and the authority being "what God has instituted", as the institution of government, not any individual ordained to govern. They may be his servants, but there are parables about bad servants, and several examples of people resisting the commands of those in authority: https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-88-g...mans-131-7

Biden isn't a bad person? Have you not seen all his sexual harassment of women and young girls caught on video?

God doesn't absolve you of your culpability in supporting those who push immoral policies. How many babies must die before you realize you need to contribute to the solution? Your vote is how you get involved here. Hopefully God looks kindly on you throwing yours away.

I don’t support these agendas and I’m not excusing anyone. That’s not at all what I was getting at. What are you talking about? Reread what I’ve posted. That passage from Romans doesn’t mean we stay complacent. That’s why we have wars (to protect and defend), activism, missions etc...

If you research that passage though, it doesn’t mean to respect only the governments you voted in to office. That’s the point of it. Why would Paul write a letter to the Romans telling them to respect only governments they voted in? No, it falls in line with love your enemies, pray for them. Do your part in society to bring about the good you wish to see. That doesn’t rest on the government.

And pray that Biden leads righteously. Understand though that in a secular democracy, Biden is tasked with serving all Americans, many who aren’t believers. I don’t expect a secular President to govern according to the Bible. Leaders of churches, yes but the POTUS isn’t a spiritual leader. I do believe that Biden has a strong faith and maybe he wrestles with how to govern and stay true to his core beliefs. That’s why judging others as to condemn them is futile.

How long will Biden euphoria last? Did he make any promises he can break? What group that supports him now will be the first to have second thoughts about that decision?

Nothing special here but some things are inevitable. IOW you can’t please everybody.