(Feb 8, 2020 03:50 AM)Yazata Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb 7, 2020 04:49 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]There’s a novel that I read where one character insults the other one but they’re friends—truly friends. I would go as far as to say it’s a bromance. They love each other. Their relationship is real and plays out the same in real life. The author (the one being insulted) said, that the enjoyment that he has in being insulted is that his friend’s insults are magnificent—they’re so inventive, so alive! How refreshing it is to be insulted in a time when we’re all supposed to be so cloyingly nice to one another. They pay attention to one another in their uniqueness. And how wonderful to be paid the compliment of a finely-crafted personal insult!
The provocative banter works because the people know each other so well -- siblings who grew up together often do it, you see it in 'band of brothers' military units that have all faced death together. It's common among police and you even see it among close groups of college friends. I've seen married couples doing it.
It works because each one fundamentally trusts the others. There's usually scrupulously maintained boundaries. Each one knows things that if said will really hurt the other person and is careful not to go there. The fact that this kind of behavior is even possible serves as indication of the strength of the bond, and that's why guys (and gals?) place great value on it. (It isn't unique to males.)
Yes, that was exactly the point that I was trying to make.
Yazata Wrote:I don't think that it works in the anonymity of internet discussion boards because none of us knows the others that well. There isn't that fundamental element of trust. Insults often aren't friendly.
I've seen it work online before.
Syne Wrote:You expose the weaknesses of other's ideas.
He’s not just attacking their ideas, though, he’s attacking them, but even then, if he’s not interested in getting to know or understand anyone, how can he understand their strengths, weaknesses or motivations?
And I think that's what C C was trying to say.
C C Wrote:There is no edifying and illuminating destination with the boring drudgery of spending 90% of your time correcting projected motivations and distortions/misrepresentations, just to have another one regurgitated afterwards.
(Feb 8, 2020 04:36 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb 8, 2020 03:50 AM)Yazata Wrote: [ -> ]Insults often aren't friendly.
Perceived insults often aren't even insults.
Milquetoast? That was definitely an insult.
(Feb 8, 2020 03:50 AM)Yazata Wrote: [ -> ]The provocative banter works because the people know each other so well -- siblings who grew up together often do it, you see it in 'band of brothers' military units that have all faced death together. It's common among police and you even see it among close groups of college friends. I've seen married couples doing it.
It works because each one fundamentally trusts the others. There's usually scrupulously maintained boundaries. Each one knows things that if said will really hurt the other person and is careful not to go there. The fact that this kind of behavior is even possible serves as indication of the strength of the bond, and that's why guys (and gals?) place great value on it. (It isn't unique to males.)
Provocative banter works for anyone who isn't insecure and thin-skinned. There's zero reason to fear simple words, unless they've been followed with violence.
(Feb 8, 2020 04:52 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]Syne Wrote:You expose the weaknesses of other's ideas.
He’s not just attacking their ideas, though, he’s attacking them, but even then, if he’s not interested in getting to know or understand anyone, how can he understand their strengths, weaknesses or motivations?
Quite the opposite. People with weak ideas aren't interested in defending them, and that is a personal failing that only illustrates the weakness of their ideas. They just want to "express themselves" without any significant push back or hard questions. People with weak ideas also seem to use talking about someone, rather than to them, as a defense mechanism.
Quote: (Feb 8, 2020 04:36 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb 8, 2020 03:50 AM)Yazata Wrote: [ -> ]Insults often aren't friendly.
Perceived insults often aren't even insults.
Milquetoast? That was definitely an insult.
Depends on if you value those traits. Making the observation doesn't imply any universally accepted judgement or condemnation.
Why name call at all, though? If your argument is solid, what does name calling do to edify the discussion?
I've also never thought of CC as ''not willing to engage.'' Hmm. It's interesting how everyone's perceptions are a bit different.
Quote:Milquetoast? That was definitely an insult.
Quote:Depends on if you value those traits. Making the observation doesn't imply any universally accepted judgement or condemnation.
Synonyms for milquetoast
pansy coward milksop sissy pantywaist
https://www.synonym.com/synonyms/milquetoast
Yep..it's definitely an insult, and a rather juvenile one at that.
milquetoast
a very timid, unassertive, spineless person, especially one who is easily dominated or intimidated
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/milquetoast
"In real life, being likable among men is kind of a mix of appearing to not be aggressive towards others in social groups, cooperative, not an asshole, humane, trustworthy in terms of being somebody that other people can count on, and stuff like that." - https://www.scivillage.com/post-34217.html#pid34217
Unassertive is an antonym of aggressive, and the easily dominated or intimidated often criticize innocuous male aggression as if all aggression is violent, compensating, etc.. The spineless are very often the most cooperative, and the timid the last person anyone would view as an asshole.
So as an observation, it seems quite apt. And defending such a person would only seem to reflect that you actually agree, and think they need you to run to their aid. So while you may consider it an insult, you're also validating it by treating him as if he needs your help. It would be a much better defense to respect him enough to assume he could defend himself, if he wanted to.
Quote:Provocative banter works for anyone who isn't insecure and thin-skinned. There's zero reason to fear simple words, unless they've been followed with violence.
It's not fear. It's being offended by insults people use against you in an attempt to belittle you and disparage you. Anyone with an ounce of self-respect will not put up with that sort of abuse. Insecure would be letting someone get away with name-calling you. There are some behaviors that are just not socially tolerated nowadays, and this is one of them.
Quote:So as an observation, it seems quite apt.
It's not an observation. It's a name-calling meant to belittle and put down Yazata. And you are responsible for that insult. It just confirms everything I have already said about you attacking people as your MO. It's what you are. A sadistic prick.
It's not that any of us think that MR (or anyone) can't defend himself and he's in need of being ''rescued,'' it's that the derailing of threads becomes something for all to see, when navigating through a discussion. Hard to miss. It's a distraction, that doesn't need to be there, imo. (name calling, I'm referring to)
Anyway...I can't reply with quotes, that's my greater concern right now. lol It's really becoming a head scratcher, because sometimes, I'm able to.
(Feb 8, 2020 06:39 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]It's not that any of us think that MR (or anyone) can't defend himself and he's in need of being ''rescued,'' it's that the derailing of threads becomes something for all to see, when navigating through a discussion. Hard to miss. It's a distraction, that doesn't need to be there, imo. (name calling, I'm referring to)
Anyway...I can't reply with quotes, that's my greater concern right now. lol It's really becoming a head scratcher, because sometimes, I'm able to.
Have you tried copy and pasting the text you want to quote in your post in between quote and /quote in brackets?
(Feb 8, 2020 06:51 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb 8, 2020 06:39 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]It's not that any of us think that MR (or anyone) can't defend himself and he's in need of being ''rescued,'' it's that the derailing of threads becomes something for all to see, when navigating through a discussion. Hard to miss. It's a distraction, that doesn't need to be there, imo. (name calling, I'm referring to)
Anyway...I can't reply with quotes, that's my greater concern right now. lol It's really becoming a head scratcher, because sometimes, I'm able to.
Have you tried copy and pasting the text you want to quote in your post in between quote and /quote in brackets?
I can quote you, now.
Like I said, it's hit or miss. But, to answer your question, yes...I tried that and it ''doubled'' CC's post...and then a lot of code was displayed throughout. I thought this could be attributed to my work laptop, but seems like it's a random thing as I've been posting tonight, from my personal laptop. It's quite the mystery. lol
(Feb 8, 2020 06:21 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:Provocative banter works for anyone who isn't insecure and thin-skinned. There's zero reason to fear simple words, unless they've been followed with violence.
It's not fear. It's being offended by insults people use against you in an attempt to belittle you and disparage you. Anyone with an ounce of self-respect will not put up with that sort of abuse. Insecure would be letting someone get away with name-calling you. There are some behaviors that are just not socially tolerated nowadays, and this is one of them.
And why should any mentally healthy and secure person care about what strangers on the internet say? We're all anonymous here, so no one can link anything said to you, other than you.
And that's the point. I have yet to hear Yaz defend himself. So far, it's only been you and the women here running to his defense. Now, unlike you, I don't think him not defending himself means he's insecure. Quite the opposite. I think it shows a very good deal of self-confidence and self-control. And that's also the point. Men give each other shit to prove their mettle. I may not agree with Yaz' view about how men cooperate, but I can respect that he doesn't seem especially fazed by my criticism.
Quote:Quote:So as an observation, it seems quite apt.
It's not an observation. It's a name-calling meant to belittle and put down Yazata. And you are responsible for that insult. It just confirms everything I have already said about you attacking people as your MO. It's what you are. A sadistic prick.
Whatever you gotta tell yourself.
(Feb 8, 2020 06:39 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]It's not that any of us think that MR (or anyone) can't defend himself and he's in need of being ''rescued,'' it's that the derailing of threads becomes something for all to see, when navigating through a discussion. Hard to miss. It's a distraction, that doesn't need to be there, imo. (name calling, I'm referring to)
And you miss where the derailment only occurs when everyone gets offended and feels the need to circle the wagons.