(Jan 7, 2021 06:04 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ] (Jan 7, 2021 05:15 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ] (Jan 7, 2021 04:44 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]To most, the Confederate flag isn't a symbol of bigotry or racism. It's a symbol of regional pride and heritage, as some southern blacks also consider it. And it's only been relatively recently that anyone has had any problem with it. But then, Democrats and leftists have notoriously short memories.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. I live in the south, and people who wave the Confederate flag from their truck, or companies who have it posted in their entrance ways, are usually racist. This flag doesn't represent the United States of America. We have one flag that ''unites'' us, and to me and others, it's divisive to fly a flag that doesn't promote unity. Sure, there are some patriots who are proud of their heritage, but it doesn't represent unity, and that's the problem. It has taken on a deeper meaning perhaps, and I'm not saying that everyone who waves the Confederate flag is a bigot, but it's an outdated flag that expresses a time when we weren't united. Why parade through the Senate floor waving that flag, instead of the American flag?
And you know this from actually talking to these people? Or you assume it because you've met a few that were and you're generalizing/stereotyping like a bigot? I can show you many examples of black southerners waving the Confederate flag. Are you saying they are racist too? If not, wouldn't it stand to reason that, at least some, white people who do aren't racist either? And if so, isn't that the old racist trope of "self-hating black"? Many people wave the Confederate flag just like they wave their state or sports team flag. It's a regional thing that doesn't take anything away from the US flag, as both are very often flown together. That you think it promotes division...while you're the one asserting it is divisive...is hypocritical and ignorant. If it doesn't represent your definition of unity, you just write it off as divisive and bigoted.
Sounds like you're the bigot. You just justify it by asserting your targets are the "real" bigots.
Always with name calling. Always contrarian. It’s not the American flag, it doesn’t represent the whole of the United States. What was the purpose of some of the rioters holding it yesterday? To express what?
I’ve read an article that yesterday was the first day in the history of the US, that a Confederate flag has been inside Capitol halls. Why is that? The entirety of the government somehow has misconstrued the true meaning of the Confederate flag? They’re all bigots? I doubt that.
Here's a brief refresher of the history of the Confederate flag:
https://indianexpress.com/article/explai...l-7137213/
(Jan 7, 2021 05:15 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ][...] I live in the south, and people who wave the Confederate flag from their truck, or companies who have it posted in their entrance ways, are usually racist. This flag doesn't represent the United States of America. We have one flag that ''unites'' us, and to me and others, it's divisive to fly a flag that doesn't promote unity.
More abuses have transpired for circa two and a half centuries under the American flag than the very short-lived Confederacy. Some militant black and Marxist cliques are actually consistent enough in their ideology to recognize such and target it as the deeper, offensive symbol. That's why I feel the Confederate flag should have continued to be tolerated to some extent, serving as a
whipping boy for the American flag. Now there's only the latter for Leftangelicals to concentrate on.{*}
Sept 20, 2001: "
Citing preliminary information, Miami-Dade Fire Department spokesman Louie Fernandez said firefighters working at an Opa-locka fire station on Saturday allegedly refused to ride on a fire truck that was flying the American flag. Fernandez said the men allegedly called the flag offensive and said it represented oppression."
US flags called 'liability,' ordered removed from New York fire trucks: "
The flag flap followed a recent Rhode Island controversy, in which local firefighters were called "terrorists" for deciding to fly Old Glory on the back of their trucks. In June, firefighters in California were directed to remove a pro-police version of the American flag flying from their vehicles."
- - - footnote - - -
{*} The unhinged of the far-right still do their best to distract attention with their alternative icons, but there's no guarantee that will be sufficient in the long-term future. As the micro-managing SocJus collectivism (that's been handed the keys to the kingdom now via this latest escapade) increasingly coerces citizens to conform to proper speech and behavior. Yesterday's foolish antics have ensured that Leftarians will bask in the mythical appearance of being the "good guys" for at least a generation to come. (There aren't any good guys, just keeping the horrors of dystopian ideologies at bay.)
(Jan 7, 2021 07:04 PM)C C Wrote: [ -> ] (Jan 7, 2021 05:15 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ][...] I live in the south, and people who wave the Confederate flag from their truck, or companies who have it posted in their entrance ways, are usually racist. This flag doesn't represent the United States of America. We have one flag that ''unites'' us, and to me and others, it's divisive to fly a flag that doesn't promote unity.
More abuses have transpired for circa two and a half centuries under the American flag than the very short-lived Confederacy. Some militant black and Marxist cliques are actually consistent enough in their ideology to recognize such and target it as the deeper, offensive symbol. That's why I feel the Confederate flag should have continued to be tolerated to some extent, serving as a whipping boy for the American flag. Now there's only the latter for Leftangelicals to concentrate on.{*}
Sept 20, 2001: "Citing preliminary information, Miami-Dade Fire Department spokesman Louie Fernandez said firefighters working at an Opa-locka fire station on Saturday allegedly refused to ride on a fire truck that was flying the American flag. Fernandez said the men allegedly called the flag offensive and said it represented oppression."
US flags called 'liability,' ordered removed from New York fire trucks: "The flag flap followed a recent Rhode Island controversy, in which local firefighters were called "terrorists" for deciding to fly Old Glory on the back of their trucks. In June, firefighters in California were directed to remove a pro-police version of the American flag flying from their vehicles."
- - - footnote - - -
{*} The unhinged of the far-right still do their best to distract attention with their alternative icons, but there's no guarantee that will be sufficient in the long-term future. As the micro-managing SocJus collectivism (that's been handed the keys to the kingdom now via this latest escapade) increasingly coerces citizens to conform to proper speech and behavior. Yesterday's foolish antics have ensured that Leftarians will bask in the mythical appearance of being the "good guys" for at least a generation to come. (There aren't any good guys, just keeping the horrors of dystopian ideologies at bay.)
I suppose there is an argument that suggests the American flag has become a weapon (over the past few years) by the radical left. But, it's still a flag that is widely accepted (of course there are outliers) by the general public, to represent the US. That said, there are outliers who feel that the Confederate flag represents triumph over adversity, but if you read the article above, that would be rewriting a new narrative about it. The fact that yesterday was the first day in the history of the US that a Confederate flag was brought in to the Capitol, tells me that most Americans find it offensive, and a throw back to a darker time in American history.
(Jan 7, 2021 06:31 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: [ -> ]I think religious symbols should also disappear. If a confederate flag represents racism then surely a cross represents a method of execution or a total loss of freedom in cases where unjustly used. A kirpan is another one, a weapon to most of us. Would state prisoners appreciate it if the warden and guards all wore little electric chairs around their necks?
On government or pubic property, I tend to agree. But, if a religious organization owns private land, then it's their right to free speech to erect whatever symbol represents it. A cross to a believer doesn't represent a loss of freedom, it represents the opposite. But, I hear you in terms of government or public domain - religious symbolism isn't appropriate. Could be why the Ten Commandments plaques have been removed from many state courtrooms, but I think that depends on the state's governor/mayor. But witnesses in legal proceedings are still asked to take an oath, placing one hand on the Bible. That's interesting considering not every witness is Christian or Jewish, so if you're not a believer...would it really be perjury if you lied ''under oath?''
(Jan 7, 2021 06:45 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ] (Jan 7, 2021 06:04 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ] (Jan 7, 2021 05:15 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. I live in the south, and people who wave the Confederate flag from their truck, or companies who have it posted in their entrance ways, are usually racist. This flag doesn't represent the United States of America. We have one flag that ''unites'' us, and to me and others, it's divisive to fly a flag that doesn't promote unity. Sure, there are some patriots who are proud of their heritage, but it doesn't represent unity, and that's the problem. It has taken on a deeper meaning perhaps, and I'm not saying that everyone who waves the Confederate flag is a bigot, but it's an outdated flag that expresses a time when we weren't united. Why parade through the Senate floor waving that flag, instead of the American flag?
And you know this from actually talking to these people? Or you assume it because you've met a few that were and you're generalizing/stereotyping like a bigot? I can show you many examples of black southerners waving the Confederate flag. Are you saying they are racist too? If not, wouldn't it stand to reason that, at least some, white people who do aren't racist either? And if so, isn't that the old racist trope of "self-hating black"? Many people wave the Confederate flag just like they wave their state or sports team flag. It's a regional thing that doesn't take anything away from the US flag, as both are very often flown together. That you think it promotes division...while you're the one asserting it is divisive...is hypocritical and ignorant. If it doesn't represent your definition of unity, you just write it off as divisive and bigoted.
Sounds like you're the bigot. You just justify it by asserting your targets are the "real" bigots.
Always with name calling. Always contrarian. It’s not the American flag, it doesn’t represent the whole of the United States. What was the purpose of some of the rioters holding it yesterday? To express what?
I’ve read an article that yesterday was the first day in the history of the US, that a Confederate flag has been inside Capitol halls. Why is that? The entirety of the government somehow has misconstrued the true meaning of the Confederate flag? They’re all bigots? I doubt that.
Here's a brief refresher of the history of the Confederate flag:
https://indianexpress.com/article/explai...l-7137213/
Um, you're the one who started in by calling a large swath of people racists and bigots. Don't whine about it now that your motive for doing so is in question. Calling groups of people names, like you did, is also bigotry.
And many Confederate flag wavers also wave the US flag, just like many sports fans wave their team's flag and the US flag. Flags are not mutually exclusive. You can fly and support more than one. According to your reasoning, anyone flying their state flag is not being "unifying" enough. Many globalists would say you're not being unifying by flying the US flag, and should be flying the UN flag instead. See how that works?
And if you google images of the protest (you know, beyond what leftist media wants you to see), you'll see way more US flags than battle flags. The Confederate flag is also often used to express resistance to government tyranny, which is what many of the anti-lockdown protesters are all about.
The Capitol is not in the south, so no one would expect those people to see the Confederate flag as anything but a symbol of the Confederacy. But again, for people in the south, it is a symbol of regional pride and heritage.
You citing articles that ignore that...while you avoid the issue of blacks waving the Confederate flag....shows that you don't understand what it represents to many people. Instead, you call them names and make excuses for your own ignorance.
(Jan 7, 2021 04:09 PM)Love Wrote: [ -> ]DO YOU REALISE THAT I'VE NEVER BEEN TOLD I'M LOVED?
Well, only because I had something to offer.
English? Locked down? Who needs people anyway? Family size bars of chocolate are much better without a family.
So what was the purpose of parading around the Capitol carrying the Confederate flag? You (Syne) haven’t answered that.
If it represents the south, why were rioters carrying them around at a DC protest? Defending the Confederate flag means you have bought into the new narrative. It is an outdated symbol with a volatile history. You know this but because Trump supporters were waving them around yesterday, you feel compelled to defend the Confederate flag.
(Jan 7, 2021 09:04 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]So what was the purpose of parading around the Capitol carrying the Confederate flag? You haven’t answered that.
If it represents the south, why were rioters carrying them around at a DC protest?
You haven't answered why southern blacks wave the Confederate flag. You haven't answered if all the Confederate flag wavers you claim are racist is from personal knowledge or just bigoted presumption.
I already told you that:
(Jan 7, 2021 08:38 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]The Confederate flag is also often used to express resistance to government tyranny, which is what many of the anti-lockdown protesters are all about.
And there were definitely anti-lockdown protesters among them. But with all the evidence of election fraud, there's also the specter of Americans losing their voice in government, which could lead to tyranny from the elites and establishment politicians who can no longer be voted out.
(Jan 7, 2021 09:04 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]So what was the purpose of parading around the Capitol carrying the Confederate flag? You haven’t answered that.
If it represents the south, why were rioters carrying them around at a DC protest?
Quote:You haven't answered why southern blacks wave the Confederate flag. You haven't answered if all the Confederate flag wavers you claim are racist is from personal knowledge or just bigoted presumption.
I know why, but they are outliers. I live in a state with a large black population. Blacks aren't flying the Confederate flag, in fact, they often protest here about the removal of it in various public locations. It's often on the local news. It's not an assumption. Not everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Stop calling people names. You’re an adult, debate like one.
(Jan 7, 2021 08:38 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]The Confederate flag is also often used to express resistance to government tyranny, which is what many of the anti-lockdown protesters are all about.
And there were definitely anti-lockdown protesters among them. But with all the evidence of election fraud, there's also the specter of Americans losing their voice in government, which could lead to tyranny from the elites and establishment politicians who can no longer be voted out.
[/quote]
I agree with this, but that is sadly a new narrative. I guess in the scheme of things, it doesn't matter. But, I'd say that the majority of news outlets didn't report on that 'display' in a favorable way.
In before...''the media is made up of leftists.''
I can't figure out why all of those quotes are jumbled, but oh well.
(Jan 7, 2021 09:29 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ] (Jan 7, 2021 09:04 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]So what was the purpose of parading around the Capitol carrying the Confederate flag? You haven’t answered that.
If it represents the south, why were rioters carrying them around at a DC protest?
Quote:You haven't answered why southern blacks wave the Confederate flag. You haven't answered if all the Confederate flag wavers you claim are racist is from personal knowledge or just bigoted presumption.
I know why, but they are outliers. I live in a state with a large black population. Blacks aren't flying the Confederate flag, in fact, they often protest here about the removal of it in various public locations. It's often on the local news. It's not an assumption. Not everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Stop calling people names. You’re an adult, debate like one.
Then tell us, why do some southern blacks fly the Confederate flag? Prove you have a clue about the southerners you claim to know. It doesn't matter that blacks who fly the Confederate flag are outliers, as your bigoted presumption that everyone who does is racist either means that those blacks are racist or your presumption is wrong. It's very simple logic.
Blacks in general don't fly the Confederate flag, but presuming that those who do must be racist is itself racist, because it presumes all black people must think the same. Black people didn't care about the Confederate flag, or monuments, until people started using it to race-bait them for political gain.
Again, you're the one who started in by calling a large group of people bigots and racists. Quit being a hypocrite about name-calling. No one doubts that many blacks hate the Confederate flag, but just because some people hate something doesn't mean that others must also. It represented southern pride long before anyone took offense to it. And I'm not even saying their feelings are wrong. They have a right to dislike anything at all. I'm saying that claiming everyone who flies a Confederate flag is racist, as you did, is itself bigoted.
Quote:Quote: (Jan 7, 2021 08:38 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]The Confederate flag is also often used to express resistance to government tyranny, which is what many of the anti-lockdown protesters are all about.
And there were definitely anti-lockdown protesters among them. But with all the evidence of election fraud, there's also the specter of Americans losing their voice in government, which could lead to tyranny from the elites and establishment politicians who can no longer be voted out.
I agree with this, but that is sadly a new narrative. I guess in the scheme of things, it doesn't matter. But, I'd say that the majority of news outlets didn't report on that 'display' in a favorable way.
In before...''the media is made up of leftists.''
"Narrative" means story...an account told for entertainment. The facts don't need a narrative to frame them in a certain light.
If you ignore that, you will forever be manipulated by leftists media.
I don't discount all of what you're saying ^^ But...unfortunately, the Confederate flag has become a symbol well known in white supremacist groups. I'm not sharing anything new. This doesn't mean that all people who wave the Confederate flag are white supremacists, but they should be careful, because that is the symbol it (now) represents. When the KKK was reformed, the Confederate flag became its symbol. Of course the roots of the Confederate flag don't stem from racism, but this has become a symbol of sorts to represent hatred of blacks. The plurality of Americans believe the Confederate flag to be offensively racist. The vast majority of southern states believe this to be true, with the exception of Louisiana, Alabama and Arkansas. (that doesn't mean the flag isn't though) Elderly Americans, black or white, see the flag as more favorably, a symbol of heritage and pride. It is a safe conclusion (imo) to assume that if you are parading around proudly waving the Confederate flag as a white person, don't be surprised if people assume you're a racist.
Seeing Trump supporters waving the Confederate flag around at the ''protests'' yesterday was disturbing, because I know many non-racist Republicans who voted for Trump and were appalled at what they saw on the news.