Culled from another forum ...
anon Wrote:Dredging the realms of composite realities i find traces of myself faintly shining like sparkly glitter almost washed down the drain.
I'm not sure quite what it means but I think it is important. Finding, choosing, picking what is important is .. to be continued.
(Jul 13, 2019 09:40 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 13, 2019 07:50 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 13, 2019 07:35 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Every experience shapes you, for good or bad. Violence is not something I'd wish on anyone. And many people learn the wrong lessons from having experienced it, like the victim who then becomes the abuser. But I'd always hope that people, at least as adults, can come to understand the underlying motives behind abuse...like you said, insecurity.
Yes, that's my hope, too.
Then there are adults who ''bully,'' in the workplace, relationships, etc. Maybe they never learned anything in their entire life. 
I assume the scare quotes is because you really mean dominate instead of bully, as both violence and intimidation are legally actionable in the workplace. Relationships is another matter, as people can be so needy that they stay in very unhealthy circumstances.
No, I meant bullying in the non-violent sense. Intimidation can be very common in the corporate culture, I've seen it where I work. I'm not sure what you mean by ''dominate,'' in this sense. A boss dominating his/her staff, or a coworker dominating his/her coworkers?
(Jul 14, 2019 02:53 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 13, 2019 09:40 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]I assume the scare quotes is because you really mean dominate instead of bully, as both violence and intimidation are legally actionable in the workplace. Relationships is another matter, as people can be so needy that they stay in very unhealthy circumstances.
No, I meant bullying in the non-violent sense. Intimidation can be very common in the corporate culture, I've seen it where I work. I'm not sure what you mean by ''dominate,'' in this sense. A boss dominating his/her staff, or a coworker dominating his/her coworkers?
There is no bullying without at least the threat of violence. Threats that you may lose your job are not bullying. If someone is threatening you with violence, you can sue the company of they fail to address the problem. So exactly what kind of "intimidation" are you talking about? Just people being snarky/insulting? That's teasing, not bullying. Dominating is just where the stronger personality tends to get their way. It may be by browbeating or they may just be more assertive than everyone else. Bosses (a real power imbalance) and coworkers can both dominate other workers.
(Jul 14, 2019 03:19 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 14, 2019 02:53 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 13, 2019 09:40 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]I assume the scare quotes is because you really mean dominate instead of bully, as both violence and intimidation are legally actionable in the workplace. Relationships is another matter, as people can be so needy that they stay in very unhealthy circumstances.
No, I meant bullying in the non-violent sense. Intimidation can be very common in the corporate culture, I've seen it where I work. I'm not sure what you mean by ''dominate,'' in this sense. A boss dominating his/her staff, or a coworker dominating his/her coworkers?
There is no bullying without at least the threat of violence. Threats that you may lose your job are not bullying. If someone is threatening you with violence, you can sue the company of they fail to address the problem. So exactly what kind of "intimidation" are you talking about? Just people being snarky/insulting? That's teasing, not bullying. Dominating is just where the stronger personality tends to get their way. It may be by browbeating or they may just be more assertive than everyone else. Bosses (a real power imbalance) and coworkers can both dominate other workers.
It's interesting how a few of us here define bullying a little differently from one another. I don't think the common definition is restricted to threatening violence? I mean, we hear about cases of bullying on the news, whereby kids were relentlessly making fun of a fellow classmate on the bus, for example. The kid feels ''bullied,'' on a daily basis. That kid might end up being afraid to go to school, just by the sheer humiliation he/she faces on a regular basis. I think that violence is beyond bullying.
At the workplace, I'd say an example of bullying would be when one cooworker is being singled out for example, and humiliated in front of other coworkers, in say a meeting. This isn't illegal, but if behaviors of bosses or coworkers border on harassment (not just sexual harassment), then I think those are situations of bullying.
(Jul 14, 2019 02:00 AM)confused2 Wrote: [ -> ]Culled from another forum ...
anon Wrote:Dredging the realms of composite realities i find traces of myself faintly shining like sparkly glitter almost washed down the drain.
I'm not sure quite what it means but I think it is important. Finding, choosing, picking what is important is .. to be continued.
Sounds like someone trying to make sense of their place in the world? Interesting, confused.
(Jul 14, 2019 03:29 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 14, 2019 03:19 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 14, 2019 02:53 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ] (Jul 13, 2019 09:40 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]I assume the scare quotes is because you really mean dominate instead of bully, as both violence and intimidation are legally actionable in the workplace. Relationships is another matter, as people can be so needy that they stay in very unhealthy circumstances.
No, I meant bullying in the non-violent sense. Intimidation can be very common in the corporate culture, I've seen it where I work. I'm not sure what you mean by ''dominate,'' in this sense. A boss dominating his/her staff, or a coworker dominating his/her coworkers?
There is no bullying without at least the threat of violence. Threats that you may lose your job are not bullying. If someone is threatening you with violence, you can sue the company of they fail to address the problem. So exactly what kind of "intimidation" are you talking about? Just people being snarky/insulting? That's teasing, not bullying. Dominating is just where the stronger personality tends to get their way. It may be by browbeating or they may just be more assertive than everyone else. Bosses (a real power imbalance) and coworkers can both dominate other workers.
It's interesting how a few of us here define bullying a little differently from one another. I don't think the common definition is restricted to threatening violence? I mean, we hear about cases of bullying on the news, whereby kids were relentlessly making fun of a fellow classmate on the bus, for example. The kid feels ''bullied,'' on a daily basis. That kid might end up being afraid to go to school, just by the sheer humiliation he/she faces on a regular basis. I think that violence is beyond bullying.
At the workplace, I'd say an example of bullying would be when one cooworker is being singled out for example, and humiliated in front of other coworkers, in say a meeting. This isn't illegal, but if behaviors of bosses or coworkers border on harassment (not just sexual harassment), then I think those are situations of bullying.
Seems a simple dictionary should clear up your confusion.
bully
noun
a person who habitually seeks to harm or intimidate those whom they perceive as vulnerable.
verb
seek to harm, intimidate, or coerce (someone perceived as vulnerable).
intimidate
verb
frighten or overawe (someone), especially in order to make them do what one wants.
coerce
verb
persuade (an unwilling person) to do something by using force or threats.
Now, I know lefty pantywaists are easily frightened, having been shielded from the real world (and having underdeveloped amygdalae with which to cope with and assess danger), but everything else involves harm, force, and threats.
Just because lefty media have redefined bullying to be "inclusive" of everything they find discomfiting, doesn't make it so in reality. The kids feel "bullied" because leftist parents have told them that's what it's called. Teasing and a fear of humiliation are common social pressures for kids and many adults. Seeking sympathy and pity by claiming to be a victim (bullied) only teaches people to value victim status. It does nothing to develop a thicker skin or learn to handle difficult people. Everything short of violence, or a credible threat of violence (and no, words aren't violence), is just a social pressure. People who simply don't like or agree with you. You know, outside of the bubble.
Being singled out and humiliated, as an adult, can only happen because you telegraph your vulnerability by reacting to it. People who get off at the expense of others only do so because there is a payoff. And believing you are a victim of bullying is that payoff...which encourages more of the same treatment.
I agree with the general definition, but that definition can easily be construed to mean non-violent forms of ''bullying.''
To be clear though, I'm not speaking of me at work...but I've seen a few coworkers who were harassed, or bullied. I think that if an employer doesn't see the value of an employee, or the employee isn't working up to par, then fire said employee. To berate, insult, humiliate, bully them isn't going to drive productivity, and it's honestly counter-productive for the team. But, in the corporate world, it's commonly known as ''managing someone out.''
On the topic of bullying in general, not everyone is imagining perceived slights. Sometimes, people are what they are...and they need to change. I don't like the word ''victim,'' though...it's a word that is overused in the media.
(Jul 14, 2019 05:28 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with the general definition, but that definition can easily be construed to mean non-violent forms of ''bullying.''
Yet you don't bother, or can't, explain how.
Leftists interpreting "harm" to mean emotional harm ignore the simple fact that you can only be emotionally hurt with your own cooperation. You have to give the opinions of others value before they have any power over you. It's like atheists or the promiscuous whining about being judged. Why should they care, unless they agree on some level? So if you're "harmed" by anything sort of violence or violent threats, you are a victim of yourself...of your own fear.
Quote:To be clear though, I'm not speaking of me at work...but I've seen a few coworkers who were harassed, or bullied. I think that if an employer doesn't see the value of an employee, or the employee isn't working up to par, then fire said employee. To berate, insult, humiliate, bully them isn't going to drive productivity, and it's honestly counter-productive for the team. But, in the corporate world, it's commonly known as ''managing someone out.''
Doesn't matter. If you perceive it as bullying, you'd do so if it were you. You either deal with it or quit. Playing the victim is only a way to justify your failing performance on the job, and find some way to blame others. People don't learn by blaming others. They learn by progressively doing better.
I gave you an example of bullying on a school bus...scroll up. That is bullying, even if it doesn't pass your standard of bullying. I consider bullying to be a relentless form of either physical or verbal harassment of some kind. It can take the form of relentless ridicule, humiliation, shoving, pushing, outright abuse...but I don't think that anyone should wait for things to escalate to assault. If someone is relentlessly verbally attacking you, it's bullying.
Someone who occasionally picks on you...that's not bullying, imo.
(Jul 14, 2019 05:51 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]I gave you an example of bullying on a school bus...scroll up. That is bullying, even if it doesn't pass your standard of bullying. I consider bullying to be a relentless form of either physical or verbal harassment of some kind. It can take the form of relentless ridicule, humiliation, shoving, pushing, outright abuse...but I don't think that anyone should wait for things to escalate to assault. If someone is relentlessly verbally attacking you, it's bullying.
Someone who occasionally picks on you...that's not bullying, imo.
Yet, again, you fail to explain how the dictionary definition covers harassment.
You just demanding that something is bullying does not magically make it so. While shoving and pushing would legally be assault, ridicule and humiliation are not bullying, no matter how frequent. Again, people, kids or adults, only engage in verbal attacks where there is a payoff. You have to feed them for them to find it worth continuing.
"Wait for things to escalate to assault"? If there is any indication of that then there is likely a threat of violence. Why would ridicule and humiliation alone escalate to assault? Unless you're talking about the "words are violence" crowd justifying their own use of violence...which is not legally justified.
(Jul 14, 2019 06:12 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Yet, again, you fail to explain how the dictionary definition covers harassment.
I don't think I know what you're asking, then. I believe bullying and harassment can be interchangeable terms, given certain conditions/circumstances.
Quote:You just demanding that something is bullying does not magically make it so. While shoving and pushing would legally be assault, ridicule and humiliation are not bullying, no matter how frequent. Again, people, kids or adults, only engage in verbal attacks where there is a payoff. You have to feed them for them to find it worth continuing.
Oh, I don't disagree, but you know everyone isn't the same. Bullies pick on what they believe is the weakest of the lot. But, there are some people who are shy, and more vulnerable than others. I agree ''don't become a target'' to begin with, but that's easier said than done, especially for kids.
Quote:"Wait for things to escalate to assault"? If there is any indication of that then there is likely a threat of violence. Why would ridicule and humiliation alone escalate to assault?
I'm reminded of a relationship one of my friends had with a guy who would humiliate her, ''bully'' her...verbally. Verbal abuse, I suppose you could say. No threats verbally of violence, until one day, he shoved her. Then, a few weeks later, assaulted her. Relationships are different than what we're talking about here, but it shows bullying in a different light.
But, kids can certainly start off with relentless ridicule, and they simply up the ante one day, and shove their target.
Going back to your story about you as a kid - I think you were being bullied before it became physical. (if it was relentless) If you weren't physically harmed, would you have considered it ''harmless teasing?'' Be honest.
