Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum

(Mar 23, 2022 11:50 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]

(Mar 23, 2022 06:44 PM)stryder Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.quora.com/profile/Dima-Vorobiev

I came across this guys posts while looking into something else.  Not sure what to make of what he says, but since you lot enjoy viewing things as the devils advocate, I thought I would mention it.  From what I read on his posts it suggests the NAZI's that Putin is attempting to push out of the Ukraine is actually a reference to NATO not Ukrainians.

I went through most of his contributions. Which one are you referring to, Stryder?

The only one that I found that contained something vaguely similar to what you’re saying is this one.

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-the-USA-an.../175278579

I think Stryder has hit the nail on the head. Putin wants to expand the Russian Federation and NATO/Natzi is his way forward. As a self-proclaimed democratically elected dictator he can't object to democracy and as he oversees a fairly capitalist economy he can't spin that very far so ..NATO as faschists/Natzis is the way forward.

(Mar 23, 2022 11:50 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]

(Mar 23, 2022 06:44 PM)stryder Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.quora.com/profile/Dima-Vorobiev

I came across this guys posts while looking into something else.  Not sure what to make of what he says, but since you lot enjoy viewing things as the devils advocate, I thought I would mention it.  From what I read on his posts it suggests the NAZI's that Putin is attempting to push out of the Ukraine is actually a reference to NATO not Ukrainians.

I went through most of his contributions. Which one are you referring to, Stryder?

The only one that I found that contained something vaguely similar to what you’re saying is this one.

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-the-USA-an.../175278579

He didn't say it directly, the post in question was a different one in regards to an understanding of Russian "Solidarity" and where Belarus (That he refered to as "White Russia") and Ukraine ("Little Russia") fit within that. It was also related to some sort of Putin related draft (legal paper or some such) that he was commenting on.

I can't seem to find it now, perhaps its one of those deleted for covering too much.

The actual reason I found his post was down to a branch of my family tree. There is a potential that I'm related to "Yaroslav the Wise" via one of his daughters. (Ukraines government uses Volodymyr the Greats insigna as there coat of arms, Yaroslavs father)

(Mar 24, 2022 01:43 AM)stryder Wrote: [ -> ]

(Mar 23, 2022 11:50 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]

(Mar 23, 2022 06:44 PM)stryder Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.quora.com/profile/Dima-Vorobiev

I came across this guys posts while looking into something else.  Not sure what to make of what he says, but since you lot enjoy viewing things as the devils advocate, I thought I would mention it.  From what I read on his posts it suggests the NAZI's that Putin is attempting to push out of the Ukraine is actually a reference to NATO not Ukrainians.

I went through most of his contributions. Which one are you referring to, Stryder?

The only one that I found that contained something vaguely similar to what you’re saying is this one.

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-the-USA-an.../175278579

He didn't say it directly, the post in question was a different one in regards to an understanding of Russian "Solidarity" and where Belarus (That he refered to as "White Russia") and Ukraine ("Little Russia") fit within that.  It was also related to some sort of Putin related draft (legal paper or some such) that he was commenting on.

I can't seem to find it now, perhaps its one of those deleted for covering too much.

The actual reason I found his post was down to a branch of my family tree.  There is a potential that I'm related to "Yaroslav the Wise" via one of his daughters.  (Ukraines government uses Volodymyr the Greats insigna as there coat of arms, Yaroslavs father)

Okay, I’ll see if I can find it. The question that I posted that he answered was about the USSR, not Russia.

When asked, ”What put Putin on a collision course with the West?”, his answer was similar to what I've tried to convey.

MR was wondering why the Russians didn’t storm the Kremlin but did you know that they did storm the parliament in 1993? There were 147 killed, 437 wounded. Clinton and U.S. Secretary of State Warren Christopher were supportive and even said that it was "superb handling".

Let me be clear though, I don’t support the invasion, but I do think it’s important to see things from their perspective and acknowledge our part in it because I think the only solution is some sort of compromise.

It’s interesting how everyone was reporting on the Neo-Nazism in Ukraine until it became politically incorrect, and like BBC pointed out, there’s a lot of history that most Americans aren’t aware of. One historian made a good point though. The Ukrainians that collaborated with the Germans, were collaborating with an occupation that was there, and which is a German historical responsibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborat...ed_Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_of_Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social-Nat...of_Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social-National_Assembly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostarbeiter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskomm...at_Ukraine

Day 29 Summary. We are a month into a campaign that originally was only supposed to take two weeks. Apart from some small-scale advances here and there, the Russian offensive remains stalled.

https://militaryland.net/ukraine/invasio...9-summary/

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgro...t-march-24

There aren't any big movements on the map in the vicinity of Kyiv, where Russian troops seem to be digging into defensive positions and concentrating on resupply.

American volunteers have been seen fighting with the Ukrainians east of Kyiv.

https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/stat...9070612487

So many Canadians have volunteered to fight for Ukraine (Canada has a big Ukrainian immigrant community) that they have formed their own Canadian battalion within the Ukrainian army.

Chernihiv and Sumy are effectively surrounded but continue to resist.

The Russians seem to have given up trying to take Kharkiv (Ukraine's second biggest city) but continue to shell it mercilessly from its northern outskirts.

A ongoing battle at a small city of about 40,000 called Izium may or may not have concluded with a Russian victory. The Russians are claiming to have taken it, but have said that before and it wasn't true. The Ukrainians insist they hold about half the town and that they continue to resist.

The Russians have taken almost all of Luhansk oblast except for a few stubborn pockets. But they haven't made a whole lot of progress in Donetsk oblast, except around Mariupol.

Mariupol remains surrounded and the Ukrainian-held portion continues to shrink. Just about every building in the city is a burned out shell. Tens of thousands of civilians remain, living in basements without food, water or medical care. Things are looking grim there and it's likely to fall soon.

In Russian-held Berdiansk, a number of Russian ships were in harbor where they were attacked very successfully by Ukrainian drones. It appears that one Russian amphibious landing ship may have been sunk and another damaged.



And in the southwest the Russian offensive against Mykolaiv seems to have fizzled out and the Ukrainians have gone over from defense to offense, taking back a number of small farming villages east of Mykolaiv that the Russians took about a week ago. The Russian advance on Kryvyi Rih seems to have made little progress in the last couple of days.

The Russians have successfully reduced Mariupol to hollowed out ruins. Congratulations Putin. Now what? Will the people who left want to come back to a wasteland? Mariupol will need to be rebuilt. Who will be in charge of that? This is the fucked up logic of war. You destroy and destroy until everything that you wanted is destroyed too.

^^^ Pour encourager les autre.

The London Times Moscow correspondent saw this:

It's a Moscow tabloid whose front page reads: "nothing happening. keep walking. special operation underway. no one growing poor. economy growing."

It's probably precisely what they were told to say, but...

I know I've mentioned this before in regards to something else however there is a similarity between the young students protesting the war in Russia (The ones being detained just for standing with a poster, no matter if it contains a message or not) and the White Rose (wikipedia.org) resistance group that used non-violence means to protest against the Nazi's in Nazi germany (During the second world war). (There were other groups too like Red Orchestra (wikipedia.org) but thats more Communistic than just intellectual.)

Today (Friday March 25) the Russian General Staff has announced what appears to be a change of strategy in the Ukraine war.

Sergei Rudskoi, the Head of the General Staff Main Operational Directorate said in a briefing,

"The main objectives of the first stage of the operation have generally been accomplished. The combat potential of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has been considerably reduced, which, I emphasize once again, makes it possible to focus on the main efforts to achieve the main goal, liberation of Donbas."

He said that 93% of the Luhansk oblast have been "liberated" and 54% of the Donetsk oblast. That's apparently where Russia will now direct its efforts.

"We did not plan to storm them [major Ukranian cities] initially in order to avoid destruction and minimize losses among personnel and civilians," Rudskoi said at the briefing. "Although we're not ruling out such a possibility, our forces and equipment will focus on the most important thing, the complete liberation of Donbas...

"There were two options. The first one was to limit the actions only to the territory of the DPR and the LPR within the administrative borders of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, which is stated in the republics' constitutions. But then we would have been faced with constant replenishment by the Ukrainian authorities of the group involved in the so-called joint forces operation," Rudskoi told the briefing on Friday.

"Therefore, the second option was chosen, which envisages actions on the entire territory of Ukraine, with events for its demilitarization and denazification," he said.

"The demilitarization of Ukraine is being achieved both with precision strikes on military infrastructure, military bases, aerodromes, command posts, arsenals and military depots, and with troops crushing the opposing enemy groups," he said.

"Unfortunately, during the special military operation there have been losses among our combat comrades: 1,351 servicemen are dead and 3,825 injured," Sergei Rudskoi said on Friday.

From the Russian Interfax news agency

https://interfax.com/newsroom/top-stories/77393/

This really belonged on a thread CC started recently but I missed the chance to post.. so please bear that in mind.

England hasn't been invaded for almost a thousand years - America not for a while. Compare with Ukraine which is and has been on the front line throughout its history (<- convenient even if not entirely true). In any English football crowd of 25,000 (I'm guessing) you could probably find 900 Azov types if you offered them a uniform and a gun. That the number of Nazi types in Ukraine is so small is what one should really be looking at as an indication of national character.

There's a logical fallacy (channelling Syne) known to me as the 'No true Scotsman' fallacy (brought to my attention by rpenner some years ago) which applies to Zelensky being a Jew that doesn't conform to (prejudiced) expectations of Jewishness and dismissing him as 'Not a true Jew'.

( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman )

The No true Scotsman is committed when the arguer satisfies the following conditions:
not publicly retreating from the initial, falsified assertion
offering a modified assertion that definitionally excludes a targeted unwanted counterexample
using rhetoric to hide the modification