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Stryder Wrote:That's why it's not as simple as just Capitulate.

Could be as simple as capitulate or die.

https://www.thinkinghumanity.com/2022/03...kJM701xNR8

Peace Agreement In Ukraine Could Be Signed Within Days According To Negotiators On Both Sides

A peace agreement could emerge in relation to the ongoing war in Ukraine within 'a matter of days', according to senior figures involved in negotiations.


Ukrainian negotiator and presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak posted a video online following talks with his Russian counterpart in which he said:


"We will not concede in principle on any positions. Russia now understands this. Russia is already beginning to talk constructively. I think that we will achieve some results literally in a matter of days."



"Our demands are - the end of the war and the withdrawal of (Russian) troops. I see the understanding and there is a dialogue."


While Russian negotiator Leonid Slutsky also said the talks had made 'substantial progress, telling journalists:


"According to my personal expectations, this progress may grow in the coming days into a joint position of both delegations, into documents for signing."


This was backed up by President Putin himself who noted 'positive shifts' in negotiations.


The positive signs coming from the talks is in stark contrast to the pessimistic feedback from earlier meetings.


It is as of yet unclear whether Ukraine will give in to any key demand made by the Russians, which likely includes handing over of Crimea to Russian control, recognising the independence of Luhansk and Donetsk, known collectively as 'the Donbass', or Ukraine accepting neutral status and agreeing to not join NATO.


Since the Russian invasion of Ukraine, thousands have died on both sides in what is the bloodiest war in Europe since the end of the Second World War, millions have also fled the country to neighbouring Poland, Hungary and Romania. At present, many of Ukraine's largest cities, including the capital Kyiv, are under siege from the Russian invaders and there is a strong fear that the violence and bloodshed will become much worse if Russian forces attempt to enter these cities and take them by force.

(Mar 14, 2022 08:58 PM)stryder Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is blood has been spilt, Which means Ukraine agreeing to those terms is as good as having commited genocide on their own people.
Ukraine requires War reparation, not forced to capitulate to handing over their territory or giving into demands.

Such Reparations could be Russia ceding the Crimea to the Ukraine.  If Putin wants the Ukraine to see a province as an Independent, then it should be done so democratically... As the people of the province what they want.  The problem with this of course is it would require international monitoring in regards to voting, and there would have to be a time period on when people were supposedly naturalised to the area.  (Russia hiring a bunch of goons to push the vote a particular way won't count.)  That itself is just the Reparation of the borders, there is then the cost of the damage done to the country, it's infilstructure, it's military, it's peoples lives.  How much is a life worth?  Is it worth more if it's a young person who's lost over that of someone older?

That's why it's not as simple as just Capitulate.

It's great for some Grand Chessboard strategists that memories tend to be short. How many now will ask themselves 'and what was the US war reparation payments for destroying Iraq - all based on demonstrably fake not 'innocently bungled' 'intelligence'?' Ha ha ha. The idea is - don't ask such silly questions. Just concentrate on the MSM narrative here and now. Only consider a certain selectively channeled historical perspective suited to the current narrative.

Transplanting to here this link posted on another forum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUPKZkqXfZI
Anyone can do their own research as to veracity of claims made. They add up imo. It so fits the pattern of an overwhelmingly disproportionate power broker involvement in Ukrainian politics, by a certain 'special interest group'.

(Mar 15, 2022 04:27 AM)Kornee Wrote: [ -> ]

(Mar 14, 2022 08:58 PM)stryder Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is blood has been spilt, Which means Ukraine agreeing to those terms is as good as having commited genocide on their own people.
Ukraine requires War reparation, not forced to capitulate to handing over their territory or giving into demands.

Such Reparations could be Russia ceding the Crimea to the Ukraine.  If Putin wants the Ukraine to see a province as an Independent, then it should be done so democratically... As the people of the province what they want.  The problem with this of course is it would require international monitoring in regards to voting, and there would have to be a time period on when people were supposedly naturalised to the area.  (Russia hiring a bunch of goons to push the vote a particular way won't count.)  That itself is just the Reparation of the borders, there is then the cost of the damage done to the country, it's infilstructure, it's military, it's peoples lives.  How much is a life worth?  Is it worth more if it's a young person who's lost over that of someone older?

That's why it's not as simple as just Capitulate.

It's great for some Grand Chessboard strategists that memories tend to be short. How many now will ask themselves 'and what was the US war reparation payments for destroying Iraq - all based on demonstrably fake not 'innocently bungled' 'intelligence'?' Ha ha ha. The idea is - don't ask such silly questions. Just concentrate on the MSM narrative here and now. Only consider a certain selectively channeled historical perspective suited to the current narrative.

Iraq was a bit different, there was no ceasefire and the control of the country was overturned. So on paper reparation's might not have been mentioned. This however doesn't mean that the country itself didn't receive infrastructure, shelter, medicine, food and an attempt to rebuild what was destroyed. The problems of course that come from that is what is built is westernised, and that unfortunately is what insenses people when they see their country change it's visard as it looks like an occupation. (In other words architecture, heritage and local sourcing are extremely important when rebuilding a country so they do not feel as if their identify is being stolen from them. There is also the need to make sure that "franchise companies" don't overly dominate their living space, as that too can be seen as a form of Western Imperialism.)

The same is also said of Afghanistan, a lot of infrastructure was built to try and aid the people over there, unfortunately winning the "hearts and minds" in this manner is still seen as hostile due to ideological conflicts.

Let's say the Ukraine gets out of the war and the healing has time to commence. It's going to generate a huge problem. Their whole the country will require having it's infrastructure refurbished/rebuilt, and this is going to cause a frenzy with already rich oligarchs (on all sides) putting in bids for charities to fund their developments. Again any developments should be completely Ukrainian controlled, while they will have the option for what they source it shouldn't be in the hands of either the West or Russia to decide what buildings they put up and where. After all it's their heritage, their skyline, their people.

(Mar 15, 2022 09:52 AM)Kornee Wrote: [ -> ]Transplanting to here this link posted on another forum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUPKZkqXfZI
Anyone can do their own research as to veracity of claims made. They add up imo. It so fits the pattern of an overwhelmingly disproportionate power broker involvement in Ukrainian politics, by a certain 'special interest group'.

Very Qanon.

I could hypothesize that If you have a group of anarchocommunists(?) with anxiety issues (Namely feeling uneasy since what they want breaks Societal or Dictatoral norms), sometimes they need a front person, a voice, a person that is trusted and respected. That person is then seen as the face of whatever it is they are attempting to do, which allows them to concentrate on dealing with the fine details of day-to-day operations and planning. It doesn't mean that what they are attempting ot achieve is underhanded, it just means they themselves probably don't feel that they would be seen as good candidates because of how they look, who they are or what trouble they might have been in when younger.

It's kind of the same deal with the very real (And original, not that fake Q version) Anonymous collective however instead of having an actual person at the front, you've got a personafication that all the "actors" can share a voice through. This of course means that statements can come from one of the myriad of people that Anonymous is made up. While some of those "actors" are really trying to make a difference in the world, others will of course likely have ulterior motives.

The problem with Qanon and conspiracy groups in general is that ulterior motives are literally what gives them a positive taxis, so they have to find them where ever they look.

(Mar 15, 2022 03:39 PM)stryder Wrote: [ -> ]

(Mar 15, 2022 09:52 AM)Kornee Wrote: [ -> ]Transplanting to here this link posted on another forum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUPKZkqXfZI
Anyone can do their own research as to veracity of claims made. They add up imo. It so fits the pattern of an overwhelmingly disproportionate power broker involvement in Ukrainian politics, by a certain 'special interest group'.

Very Qanon. 

I could hypothesize that If you have a group of anarchocommunists(?)  with anxiety issues (Namely feeling uneasy since what they want breaks Societal or Dictatoral norms), sometimes they need a front person, a voice, a person that is trusted and respected.  That person is then seen as the face of whatever it is they are attempting to do, which allows them to concentrate on dealing with the fine details of day-to-day operations and planning.  It doesn't mean that what they are attempting ot achieve is underhanded, it just means they themselves probably don't feel that they would be seen as good candidates because of how they look, who they are or what trouble they might have been in when younger.

It's kind of the same deal with the very real (And original, not that fake Q version) Anonymous collective however instead of having an actual person at the front, you've got a personafication that all the "actors" can share a voice through.  This of course means that statements can come from one of the myriad of people that Anonymous is made up.  While some of those "actors" are really trying to make a difference in the world, others will of course likely have ulterior motives.

The problem with Qanon and conspiracy groups in general is that ulterior motives are literally what gives them a positive taxis, so they have to find them where ever they look.

If you do a little digging, Stryder, you'd find out that it revolves around Trump’s impeachment, which was due to the pressure he put on Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to announce an investigation to probe into the firing of Viktor Shokin, who was the prosecutor conducting the investigation of Ukrainian oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky, owner of the natural gas company Burisma Holdings, over allegations of money laundering, tax evasion, and corruption.

"In a sworn affidavit, Shokin stated, "The truth is that I was forced out because I was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings, a natural gas firm active in Ukraine and Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, was a member of the Board of Directors." On several occasions President Poroshenko asked me to have a look at the criminal case against Burisma and consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect of this company, but I refused to close this investigation."

On 27 February 2020, a court ruling forced investigators to open a probe on Joe Biden's pressure on Poroshenko to fire Shokin. The investigation was closed in November 2020 after the election of Joe Biden as President of the United States."

Hunter Biden joins the team of Burisma Holdings

I'm against conspiracy theories but this one is getting harder and harder to ignore. Why would a Ukrainian energy company want Devon Archer or Hunter Biden to serve on its board?

Servant of the People or Servant of the Oligarchs

Edit: addendum;


Foreign Affairs Issue with Joe Biden-Video

Starting at about 52:00 in the video, Biden said that he was supposed to announce another billion-dollar loan guarantee to Ukraine in Kyiv. He said the he had gotten a commitment from Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk (Yatsenyuk is the guy Nuland and Pyatt got caught talking about.) that they would take action against the state prosecutor and they didn’t. He said that he told them that we’re not going to give you the billion dollars. Biden said that they said that he didn’t have any authority. You’re not the president. The president said. Biden said call him. I’m telling you you’re not getting the billion dollars. I’m going to be leaving here in six hours and if the prosecutor isn’t fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of bitch, he got fired and they put someone in place that was solid.

Yeah, sounds kind of shady to me.

(Mar 15, 2022 04:42 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]If you do a little digging, Stryder, you'd find out that it revolves around Trump’s impeachment, which was due to the pressure he put on Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to announce an investigation to probe into the firing of Viktor Shokin, who was the prosecutor conducting the investigation of Ukrainian oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky, owner of the natural gas company Burisma Holdings, over allegations of money laundering, tax evasion, and corruption.

"In a sworn affidavit, Shokin stated, "The truth is that I was forced out because I was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings, a natural gas firm active in Ukraine and Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, was a member of the Board of Directors." On several occasions President Poroshenko asked me to have a look at the criminal case against Burisma and consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect of this company, but I refused to close this investigation."

On 27 February 2020, a court ruling forced investigators to open a probe on Joe Biden's pressure on Poroshenko to fire Shokin. The investigation was closed in November 2020 after the election of Joe Biden as President of the United States."

Hunter Biden joins the team of Burisma Holdings

I'm against conspiracy theories but this one is getting harder and harder to ignore. Why would a Ukrainian energy company want Devon Archer or Hunter Biden to serve on its board?

Servant of the People or Servant of the Oligarchs

Edit: addendum;


Foreign Affairs Issue with Joe Biden-Video

Starting at about 52:00 in the video, Biden said that he was supposed to announce another billion-dollar loan guarantee to Ukraine in Kyiv. He said the he had gotten a commitment  from Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk (Yatsenyuk is the guy Nuland and Pyatt got caught talking about.) that they would take action against the state prosecutor and they didn’t. He said that he told them that we’re not going to give you the billion dollars. Biden said that they said that he didn’t have any authority. You’re not the president. The president said. Biden said call him. I’m telling you you’re not getting the billion dollars. I’m going to be leaving here in six hours and if the prosecutor isn’t fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of bitch, he got fired and they put someone in place that was solid.

Yeah, sounds kind of shady to me. 

If in a realtime world crisis that information would be deemed "Inactionabled" because of it's age. Yes it might of meant something back then, but it's 8+ years on, thats a lifetime in it's own right. Ukraines problems stemmed far further back than Bidens involvement though, it's just the involvement was the point where something was done. Russia had been building up their gameplan in far advance, for instance:

Wikileaks "cablegate" was released 28 November 2010, that BBC piece on the Russian leaked illegal wiretap was leaked feb 2014. This meant that Russia had been installing wiretaps with the shear intention of escalating tension which admitted was only possible because of what they obtained. Who's to say that any of the "actors" involved in the nefarious plot weren't actually coordinating with Moscow to make the revelation look worse?

(Mar 15, 2022 06:16 PM)stryder Wrote: [ -> ]If in a realtime world crisis that information would be deemed "Inactionabled" because of it's age.  Yes it might of meant something back then, but it's 8+ years on, thats a lifetime in it's own right.  Ukraines problems stemmed far further back than Bidens involvement though, it's just the involvement was the point where something was done.  Russia had been building up their gameplan in far advance, for instance:

Wikileaks "cablegate" was released 28 November 2010, that BBC piece on the Russian leaked illegal wiretap was leaked feb 2014.  This meant that Russia had been installing wiretaps with the shear intention of escalating tension which admitted was only possible because of what they obtained.  Who's to say that any of the "actors" involved in the nefarious plot weren't actually coordinating with Moscow to make the revelation look worse?

Maybe but I wouldn't call it "Qanon" like you did.

There’s no way for me to make any connections to link Kolomoisky to Burisma. There’s been reports, but nothing definitive. If there were...that would be pretty damaging.

Here’s something from U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs though, showing how they tried to contain it all.

The Ukrainian scam of the Biden family

Geez! Crazy world we live in.

Russia sanctions Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton and others

Including Hunter Biden. Weird!

Day 20 Summary Tomorrow will be the end of week three. Russian officers were originally briefed that the whole campaign would probably be over in two weeks.

https://militaryland.net/ukraine/invasio...0-summary/

The biggest events seem to be increased indiscriminate shelling of Kyiv residential neighborhoods (many photos of burning apartment buildings) along a Russian flanking movement west of the city. The Russians have been pretty much stopped near Irpin. So they have moved south a ways and moved through a forest reserve to attack additional western Kyiv suburbs a little south of where Ukrainian defenses are grouped. The Ukrainian defenders are scrambling to adjust and lots of heavy combat is underway. But still no Russian ground attacks into the city itself. There are Russians on the eastern outskirts of Kyiv too, but in fewer numbers.

And in the south, there's a large movement of Russian forces moving north from the Kherson-Mykolaiv area towards Kryvyi Rih. This area is mostly open farmland and the Russians are meeting little resistance in this rural area, so they are expanding across the map fairly rapidly. (Again, the Ukrainians need more air power so they can attack these forces from the air.) Meanwhile, a force of Ukrainians attacked the airport at Russian occupied Kherson (which the Russians were using as a supply and helicopter hub) and destroyed many Russian supply vehicles and a number of helicopters. The Ukrainians have taken control of the airport, but they are in an exposed position there and I don't expect them to remain after appropriating all the usable Russian stuff and blowing the rest up.

https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/stat...0805132291