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Observation from the other side of the pond.. SS seems pretty cotton-picking American - just not stupid - therein lies the difference.

A thing (actually on of many) I don't understand is why bother with street fighting. If the toilets haven't worked for a week and the mobile phone masts are blown up (if not now then shortly) - what is there inside a bombed out city that makes it attractive to an invading army?
(Mar 20, 2022 03:18 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]
(Mar 20, 2022 03:03 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Quit being a troll, moron. It's been painfully obvious, for years, that I'm the closest thing you've ever seen to a real conservative, living out there in leftist bubble land. If you really think antisemitism and Putin apologetics is part and parcel with the right, you're only admitting to both by trying to call me liberal. You've listened to the likes of Tucker Carlson, who's never been a real conservative, too much. Only the moron authoritative minority on the right likes Putin. And even they don't attack America like you do. At most, they only attack the Biden administration.

So quit LARPing that you're on the right. At best, you're a useful idiot of the left.

I’ve already stated where I obtain my information. I don’t need to repeat it for your dumbass.

As far as the U.S. is concerned, NATO closed the sky in Bosnia and Libya. Why not Ukraine? You don’t even know, dumb(_i_). So, don’t give me your creepy Nancy Pelosi virtue signaling patriotism.

You really are a useful idiot...especially for the likes of Nancy Pelosi. She loves that you're attacking America, because that's exactly what the left does. She's happy that you're making excuses for Putin, because not only can she use that to attack the right (that you're pretending to be), and bolster her lies about Trump and Putin being in cahoots, but she can claim the right is fine with him killing Ukrainian civilians too. She's fine that you're agreeing with Obama, when he said Russia wasn't a threat.

NATO follows the lead of the US, which is currently led by Biden. Guess what, Biden has a sordid history with the Ukraine that he'd probably like to see get buried in rubble. I would tell you to pull your head out of your ass, but after so many years, the condition must be terminal.
(Mar 20, 2022 03:24 AM)confused2 Wrote: [ -> ]A thing (actually on of many) I don't understand is why bother with street fighting. If the toilets haven't worked for a week and the mobile phone masts are blown up (if not now then shortly) - what is there inside a bombed out city that makes it attractive to an invading army?

Hill 937?

Seriously though, they've pinned some positions on the map that they need to take. Taking those positions secures points that make it look like they are on the path to a victory. The reality of course is that they won't gain anything other than the worlds disgust and they are more likely going to be trying to plant evidence of alsorts of nonsense in the rubble to make it look like their war was just.
^^ [Edit Syne's post - sorry Stryder] So you think the way forward is to insult SS. [Golf-clap].
And .. is that it?
And as always, his assumptions are inaccurate, but he's too lazy to do the work.
(Mar 20, 2022 04:07 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]And as always, his assumptions are inaccurate, but he's too lazy to do the work.

You always do this. You find someone, get enamored, and cite them copiously, while never being able to justify your position beyond parroting them. That's the definition of a useful idiot. Hell, you can't even manage to deny that you're sympathetic with anti-Semites, that you're somehow not attacking America, or that you're not making excuses for Putin. That's what happens when you parrot things you don't really understand.
Day 24 Summary

https://militaryland.net/ukraine/invasio...4-summary/

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgro...t-march-19

General situation is that the Russian invasion seems to have stalled out in most parts of the country. But the Ukrainians are unable to take advantage and counterattack, due to their own losses and to their lack of effective air power.

Around Kyiv the Russians continue to move in supplies and reinforcements, but haven't made any big advances.

In the northeast closer to the Russian border both Chernihiv and Sumy are still in Ukrainian hands and are resisting fiercely, even though they are effectively surrounded. Russian spearhead columns have bypassed these cities and proceeded on towards Kyiv, but aren't strong enough to assault that Ukrainian stronghold.

Further east at Kharkiv, the situation is pretty much unchanged. The Ukrainians hold the city center, the Russians pound it with artillery from the northern outskirts.

In the far eastern oblasts, the Russians are consolidating their strong positions and trying to eliminate the last Ukrainian strongpoints.

Mariupol remains surrounded and under relentless attack. The Ukrainians have tried to get reinforcements to them by both land and air, and have failed. Fighting in that city is street by street and building by building and loss of life is high. It's expected that Mariupol will fall in coming days.

In the southwest, the Russians are back in control of Kherson airport but seem to have given up attacking west towards Mykolaiv in favor of moving north towards Krivyi Rih. They have taken many small places on the map, but these are small farm villages. The large Black Sea port of Odessa remains threatened but not yet under attack. A big event in Mykolaiv was a Russian missile attack on a Ukrainian army barracks that totally obliterated it with many dead. Warning the photo in the link below shows the destroyed barracks and might be disturbing to some, when you make out what the rubble in the foreground contains.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOJ_waDXwAIV...ame=medium

Air and missile attacks on military facilities in far western Ukraine have picked up as more NATO supplies have flowed in to the Ukrainians, but the Russians haven't yet launched any ground attacks in these areas.

(Mar 20, 2022 03:24 AM)confused2 Wrote: [ -> ]A thing (actually on of many) I don't understand is why bother with street fighting. If the toilets haven't worked for a week and the mobile phone masts are blown up (if not now then shortly) - what is there inside a bombed out city that makes it attractive to an invading army?

The original Russian plan seems to have been to run fast armored columns into the major Ukrainian cities within the first few days of the war. The most important of these would be the Capital Kyiv. They would replace the government there with one of their choosing and that would be that. Ukraine would their satellite.

They never seem to have expected the kind of fierce resistance that they encountered and instead expected much of the population (especially the Russian-speaking minority in the east) to welcome them.

That strategy seems to have failed miserably. But Moscow as yet hasn't adopted a new strategy and instead keeps trying to resurrect the old one, which seems to many observers to be increasingly hopeless.
It's unfortunate no tragic that so few are prepared to even look at material that sets the current propaganda war in an informed, honest historical perspective. Blinken has kept up the ludicrous narrative of 'we expect imminent Russian false flag chemical weapons attacks, to be blamed on Ukrainian regime, as pretext for demonizing Zelenski and justifying Putin's authorized atrocities'.
What? The whole idea of false flags is that they have to be kept secret. But here we are treated to a story whereby Putin's evil scheming is up there on a whiteboard for all the world to see.

When it comes to the pot calling the kettle black, I'd prefer accounts that make sense:
https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/the-...ive-going/
https://www.syriasolidaritymovement.org/...-on-syria/
[And many other eye opener articles there.]

None of this is saying Putin is a virtuous white knight, but it is saying we in the West have been fed lies by a compliant and slick MSM propaganda network for a long time.
Moral - read widely - try and get as wide and unbiased a perspective as possible. Thanks to Google/Facebook etc., that task is becoming increasingly difficult.
(Mar 20, 2022 06:40 AM)Kornee Wrote: [ -> ]It's unfortunate no tragic that so few are prepared to even look at material that sets the current propaganda war in an informed, honest historical perspective. Blinken has kept up the ludicrous narrative of 'we expect imminent Russian false flag chemical weapons attacks, to be blamed on Ukrainian regime, as pretext for demonizing Zelenski and justifying Putin's authorized atrocities'.
What? The whole idea of false flags is that they have to be kept secret. But here we are treated to a story whereby Putin's evil scheming is up there on a whiteboard for all the world to see.

When it comes to the pot calling the kettle black, I'd prefer accounts that make sense:
https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/the-...ive-going/
https://www.syriasolidaritymovement.org/...-on-syria/
[And many other eye opener articles there.]

None of this is saying Putin is a virtuous white knight, but it is saying we in the West have been fed lies by a compliant and slick MSM propaganda network for a long time.
Moral - read widely - try and get as wide and unbiased a perspective as possible. Thanks to Google/Facebook etc., that task is becoming increasingly difficult.

I think you kind of miss why the concerns exist. Historically they (Russia dictators, specifically this one) have used such weapons in the past, they have proven that they will do whatever they want to do whether any other government suggests otherwise. The threat of them using such things is a very real concern (Much like them using the Nuclear threats)

The idea of it being vocalised isn't about creating false-flag statements, it's actually poorly narrated method of trying to get those people that carry out such attacks to think rationally about what hell they intend to unleash on a civilian populous in the name of their dictator.

The reality is that trying to appeal to their sense of honour, justice and intergrity won't work, Russian men are conscripted into the Military for a duration at which point they are bullied/tortured to capitulate to the military machine. Their resolve is broken and they likely become sycophants due to their brainwashing (Think of it a bit like Stockholm syndrome, where they even defend their torturers).

They'll all too happily press the button as the alternative is what death, or *IF* they have families them being either targeted by puratin (Brainwashed) nationalists through poisonings, or having their families split up and discredited. (Russians probably have a lot of Orphaned kids that find their way into the condition state of their nationalist party and military machine)

Thats why people hoping, heck praying for the Russian people to grow some balls, to kick out their dictator and his cartel* isn't going to work.
(* Under sanctions thats all they are is a criminal network that will be looking to exploit every criminal all over again)
(Mar 20, 2022 12:36 PM)stryder Wrote: [ -> ]...The idea of it being vocalised isn't about creating false-flag statements, it's actually poorly narrated method of trying to get those people that carry out such attacks to think rationally about what hell they intend to unleash on a civilian populous in the name of their dictator.
As per #278, to judge if such a notional noble aim is likely true, look at historical precedents. There were several relevant ones linked to in #278. Here's another one, that can just be watched:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/i31e9LxaERVV/

Your other points about e.g. ordinary Russians being too compliant to autocratic rule has some merit for sure. It's their history. And that of many other nations for that matter.
But again, if the general populace in the freedom-loving West is systematically fed false info/narratives continually, how much genuine freedom to make correct judgements and choices is there in fact?

Anyway....Clearly the usual situation prevails. Entrenched positions almost entirely resistant to reevaluation.
Degenerating into ad homs as 'arguments' (one poster in particular). A circulating circus act that's not at all funny.
Therefore I'm taking an extended posting holiday. On this topic at least.