Article  The proposed "real reason" that Israel attacked Iran

Syne Wrote:Then where's your equivalent criteria for "proof" of Israel committing atrocities?
You seem eager to pass judgement based on you incredulity alone.
I see a lot of hijabs in the videos. Don't know why you'd think that was Africa.

You mistake "What wouldn't surprise me" for 'evidence' .. it is no more than what I wrote.

At https://youtu.be/swX1eY5RYaM?t=129

Just above the red circle .. plump figure in white top , bare arms, hair not covered(?)
At the top towards the right, walking away .. female figure in non-black dress .. difficult to see given the quality of the evidence but I'd say .. also hair not covered.

There's nothing more to argue about. Either these atrocities are really happening as reported in the dozen or so news outlets and charity organizations I quoted from here, or they are all just made up hoaxes perpetrated by some huge worldwide conspiracy of antisemites as you claim. It certainly doesn't make any difference that I have a shared and legitimate burden for these victims of oppression. It doesn't make any difference that Hamas has committed terrorist attacks in the past. What only matters is that this genocidal and internationally condemned persecution of 2 million refugees be exposed before the world so Israel will stop and instead help these poor souls as much as they can. If you can't grasp the simple fundamental ethics of that, then I'm not wasting my time repeating it. Only a cold and selfish sociopath would be against the alleviation of such an urgent humanitarian crisis.

(Jun 25, 2025 02:33 AM)confused2 Wrote:

Syne Wrote:Then where's your equivalent criteria for "proof" of Israel committing atrocities?
You seem eager to pass judgement based on you incredulity alone.
I see a lot of hijabs in the videos. Don't know why you'd think that was Africa.

You mistake "What wouldn't surprise me" for 'evidence' .. it is no more than what I wrote.

Backpedaling. You didn't say anything like that.
You claimed "An obvious fail" and "stoop to fabricating," without the kind of evidence you demand as "proof."

Quote:At https://youtu.be/swX1eY5RYaM?t=129

Just above the red circle .. plump figure in white top , bare arms, hair not covered(?)
At the top towards the right, walking away .. female figure in non-black dress .. difficult to see given the quality of the evidence but I'd say .. also hair not covered.

You mean what looks like a man in a white t-shirt and woman with a head covering?

“It is not a must for women to wear black. They may wear other colours that are worn only by women, do not attract attention, and do not provoke desire. “Many women choose to wear black, not because it is obligatory, but because it is farthest removed from being an adornment.
- https://fiqh.islamonline.net/en/must-a-m...-in-black/

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(Jun 25, 2025 02:36 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: There's nothing more to argue about. Either these atrocities are really happening as reported in the dozen or so news outlets and charity organizations I quoted from here, or they are all just made up hoaxes perpetrated by some huge worldwide conspiracy of antisemites as you claim. It certainly doesn't make any difference that I have a shared and legitimate burden for these victims of oppression. It doesn't make any difference that Hamas has committed terrorist attacks in the past. What only matters is that this genocidal and internationally condemned persecution of 2 million refugees be exposed before the world so Israel will stop and instead help these poor souls as much as they can. If you can't grasp the simple fundamental ethics of that, then I'm not wasting my time repeating it.  Only a cold and selfish sociopath would be against the alleviation of such an urgent humanitarian crisis.

Anything so you can avoid answering simple questions that blow huge holes in your antisemitic narrative. Chickenshit pussy.

I know you love to believe in conspiracies, but I already told you how none is required... if you could only read worth a damn. Just a bunch of leftists (remember, the DBS movement was embraced by leftist Democrats long before Oct 7th) being antisemites. And no one said hoax either. So you're just making up bullshit straw men. That's how desperate you are to avoid answering simple questions. Most people don't call disinformation a hoax, especially when those pushing it, like you, have a personal interest in an ideological narrative. That's just simple motivated reasoning and bias.

You have zero moral clarity when you obviously cannot distinguish between Hamas attacking, killing, kidnapping, and raping* Israeli civilians, using Gazans (including children and hospitals) as human shields, training kindergartners to be terrorists, telling civilians to remain in place when the IDF gives a pre-attack evacuation notice, stealing humanitarian aid, and terrorizing Gazans who seek aid, and Israel only attacking military targets, where the civilian causalities are intentionally part of Hamas' propaganda war.


So you're right. It is a complete waste of time to deal with you... an intellectually dishonest antisemite who can't answer simple questions because you're an evil piece of shit who knows the only answer to those questions completely undermines your hatred of Jews. So go ahead and beg off, worthless chickenshit.




*Reasonable Grounds to Believe Conflict-Related Sexual Violence Occurred in Israel During 7 October Attacks, Senior UN Official Tells Security Council

American veterans attacked, injured while distributing aid in Gaza with US-backed group

Two American veterans working with the U.S.- and Israeli-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF) were injured in an attack while distributing aid to Palestinians. The two veterans are reportedly receiving medical treatment and are in stable condition. GHF said the Americans were "highly decorated" veterans.

"GHF has repeatedly warned of credible threats from Hamas, including explicit plans to target American personnel, Palestinian aid workers, and the civilians who rely on our sites for food. Today’s attack tragically affirms those warnings," the organization wrote on X.
...
The organization later posted an image of grenade fragments left over from the attack, showing the weapons were packed with ball bearings. GHF said that after throwing the grenades the two assailants ran into a crowd of civilians. According to GHF Executive Chairman Rev. Johnnie Moore, the grenades were found to be of Iranian origin and have been "commonly used by Hamas."

Most antisemitic outlets are framing this as "US, Israel blame Hamas," as if the US or Israel would attack their own aid workers, and a heavy dose of whataboutism against the IDF, taking Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry as gospel truth. The bias is so obvious and one-sided. These people aren't even trying to hide the ball... unless you're functionally illiterate.

Google’s Sergey Brin calls UN “blatantly antisemitic,” condemns Gaza report

Google co-founder Sergey Brin has criticized the United Nations, calling the organization “transparently antisemitic.”
...
Brin’s comments were in response to a United Nations report published last month that accused technology companies, including Google and its parent company, Alphabet, of profiting from what it called “Israel’s genocide” in Gaza by providing cloud and AI technologies to the Israeli government and the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).

“With all due respect, throwing around the term genocide in relation to Gaza is deeply offensive to many Jewish people who have suffered actual genocides. I would also be careful citing transparently antisemitic organizations like the UN in relation to these issues,” Brin wrote in a message to an internal forum at Google DeepMind, the company’s artificial intelligence division.
...
The UN report was authored by Francesca Albanese, the UN’s special rapporteur for the occupied Palestinian territories. The U.S. ambassador to the UN has already expressed support for her dismissal, accusing her of anti-Semitism and bias against Israel.

I would rather be accused of antisemitism than be accused of genocide. If people are regularly accusing you of that, you need to take a really good look at your policies.

When people make accusations of genocide, by only citing genocidal terrorists and known antisemites and without actual evidence, you can rest assured they are merely projecting their own evil.

If you have to invalidate the views of all of those around you about you as antisemitic and so not to be taken seriously, you clearly are only enforcing your own delusions. Like any other conspiracy theory disagreement with it only reinforces belief in it. Meanwhile the genocide continues unabated.

I can't help it if antisemites and their sympathizers believe every bit of propaganda from the Gaza Health Ministry, run by Hamas, the UN, which had staff involved in the Oct 7th terrorist attack*, CNN*, etc.. That people want to keep making claims of genocide without evidence, when the IDF would be capable of genocide within weeks to months, just demonstrated their bad faith or gullibility to propaganda.

All of the exaggerated death count attributed to Israel has come from Hamas' health ministry or organizations that can only operate safely in Gaza by pandering to Hamas. The vast majority of the Gazan civilian deaths are directly due to the actions of Hamas. Hamas stole humanitarian aid and intimidated civilians away from aid stations. Now that aid is a joint US/Israel military-supported operation, aid is actually getting to the civilians. Even so, parts of Gaza have never seen a shortage of food, and Hamas has allowed the profiteering.

Hamas has always been using the Gaza civilians as humans shields, propaganda fodder, etc.. Dismissing any of this is denying reality, like a Holocaust denier.


*

The UN said on Monday that nine staff working for its Palestine refugee agency UNRWA will be sacked because they may have been involved in the 7 October 2023 Hamas-led attacks against Israel. - https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/08/1152841


Her history is so replete with antisemitic rhetoric that multiple governments have condemned her. She doesn’t believe Israel has a right to self-defense. She has legitimized Hamas’s Oct. 7 massacre by claiming that Palestinians “are actually forced to resort to armed struggle.” Just over a week ago, she even claimed that the Oct. 7 attack—the deadliest mass murder of Jews since the Holocaust—was not antisemitic.

Yet, bewilderingly, CNN once again decided to amplify this antisemite’s horrific allegations against the Jewish state, notwithstanding they lacked any supporting evidence, and without mentioning her extraordinary bias on the subject. The network did so in an article dated Feb. 20, titled, “UN experts demand investigation into claims Israeli forces killed, raped and sexually assaulted Palestinian women and girls,” authored by Richard Roth, Kareem El Damanhoury and Richard Allen Greene.
- https://www.jns.org/once-again-cnn-gives...-platform/

That's like saying well Hamas is killing them, so our killing them doesn't matter. And don't you dare bring up our killing of them or we will accuse you of antisemitism. Meanwhile:

"An Israeli reservist who served three tours of duty in Gaza has told Sky News in a rare on-camera interview that his unit was often ordered to shoot anyone entering areas soldiers defined as no-go zones, regardless of whether they posed a threat, a practice he says left civilians dead where they fell.

"We have a territory that we are in, and the commands are: everyone that comes inside needs to die," he said. "If they're inside, they're dangerous you need to kill them. No matter who it is," he said.
the soldier said troops killed civilians arbitrarily. The soldier said the criteria of opening fire on civilians shifted depending on the commander.

The soldier is a reservist in the Israel Defence Force's 252nd Division. He was posted twice to the Netzarim corridor; a narrow strip of land cut through central Gaza early in the war, running from the sea to the Israeli border. It was designed to split the territory and allow Israeli forces to have greater control from inside the Strip.

He said that when his unit was stationed on the edge of a civilian area, soldiers slept in a house belonging to displaced Palestinians and marked an invisible boundary around it that defined a no-go zone for Gazans.

"In one of the houses that we had been in, we had the big territory. This was the closest to the citizens' neighbourhood, with people inside. And there's an imaginary line that they tell us all the Gazan people know it, and that they know they are not allowed to pass it," he said. "But how can they know?"

People who crossed into this area were most often shot, he said.

"It was like pretty much everyone that comes into the territory, and it might be like a teenager riding his bicycle," he said.

The soldier described a prevailing belief among troops that all Gazans were terrorists, even when they were clearly unarmed civilians. This perception, he said, was not challenged and was often endorsed by commanders.

"They don't really talk to you about civilians that may come to your place. Like I was in the Netzarim road, and they say if someone comes here, it means that he knows he shouldn't be there, and if he still comes, it means he's a terrorist," he said.

"This is what they tell you. But I don't really think it's true. It's just poor people, civilians that don't really have too many choices."

He said the criteria of opening fire on civilians shifted depending on the commander.

"They might be shot, they might be captured," he said. "It really depends on the day, the mood of the commander."

He recalled an occasion of a man crossing the boundary and being shot. When another man came later to the body, it was decided that he would be captured.

Hours after that, the order changed again, shoot everyone on sight who crosses the "imaginary line".

At another time, his unit was positioned near the Shujaiya area of Gaza City. He described Palestinians scavenging scrap metal and solar panels from a building inside the so-called no-go zone.

"For sure, no terrorists there," he said. "Every commander can choose for himself what he does. So it's kind of like the Wild West. So, some commanders can really decide to do war crimes and bad things and don't face the consequences of that."

The soldier said many of his comrades believed there were no innocents in Gaza, citing the Hamas-led 7 October attack that killed around 1,200 people and saw 250 taken hostage. Dozens of hostages have since been freed or rescued by Israeli forces, while about 50 remain in captivity, including roughly 30 Israel believes are dead.

He recalled soldiers openly discussing the killings.

"They'd say: 'Yeah, but these people didn't do anything to prevent October 7, and they probably had fun when this was happening to us. So they deserve to die'."

He added: "People don't feel mercy for them."

"I think a lot of them really felt like they were doing something good," he said. "I think the core of it, that in their mind, these people aren't innocent."

In Israel, it is rare for soldiers to publicly criticise the IDF, which is seen as a unifying institution and a rite of passage for Jewish Israelis. Military service shapes identity and social standing, and those who speak out risk being ostracised.

The soldier said he did not want to be identified because he feared being branded a traitor or shunned by his community.

Still, he felt compelled to speak out.

"I kind of feel like I took part in something bad, and I need to counter it with something good that I do, by speaking out, because I am very troubled about what I took and still am taking part of, as a soldier and citizen in this country," he said

"I think the war is... a very bad thing that is happening to us, and to the Palestinians, and I think it needs to be over," he said.

He added: "I think in Israeli community, it's very hard to criticise itself and its army. A lot of people don't understand what they are agreeing to. They think the war needs to happen, and we need to bring the hostages back, but they don't understand the consequences.

"I think a lot of people, if they knew exactly what's happening, it wouldn't go down very well for them, and they wouldn't agree with it. I hope that by speaking of it, it can change how things are being done."

We put the allegations of arbitrary killings in the Netzarim corridor to the Israeli military.

In a statement, the IDF said it "operates in strict accordance with its rules of engagement and international law, taking feasible precautions to mitigate civilian harm".

"The IDF operates against military targets and objectives, and does not target civilians or civilian objects," the statement continued.

The Israeli military added that "reports and complaints regarding the violation of international law by the IDF are transferred to the relevant authorities responsible for examining exceptional incidents that occurred during the war".

The statement also mentioned the steps the military says it takes to minimise civilian casualties, including issuing evacuation warnings and advising people to temporarily leave areas of intense fighting.

"The areas designated for evacuation in the Gaza Strip are updated as needed. The IDF continuously informs the civilian population of any changes," it said.

https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldi...a-13393422