Article (UK) The best Israel conversation you've ever heard?

[C C]

Major Andrew Fox is a former British Army officer and completed three tours in Afghanistan. He also served in Bosnia, Northern Ireland, & the Middle East.
https://youtu.be/dN2WGZZG-x0

VIDEO EXCERPTS: . . . That hasn't stopped Egypt joining the genocide case against Israel in the ICJ. And yet they have it in their power to end this genocide immediately by opening the heavily reinforced border gate that you see. So I've been along that border with Egypt, and it is an incredibly well reinforced. So that's something that doesn't quite add up there.

[...] We've got a 50 plus, 60 plus year information campaign supporting the type of thing Hamas is doing in Gaza, and to an extent what the Palestinian Authority are doing in the West Bank, or Judea, and Samaria, or whichever we're calling it today.

This was a reframing backed by a superpower, backed by the Soviet Union during the Cold War, to take the issue of Palestinianism and turn it against Israel and reframe it as oppressor versus oppressed [cultural hegemony], which of course is the narrative that's been heavily pushed throughout Western academia and Western media.

And it is essentially because of that framing of oppressor versus oppressed, it gives the Palestinians a free pass to do whatever they want. And it means that Israel is always the bad guy no matter what happens. And so extraneous issues like what is Egypt doing, what are the Gulf States doing, what is Turkey doing [...] gets kind of overlooked completely.

[...] Look at the fact that Israel has sustained 3,000 casualties, that Israel has the capability to end this tomorrow. If they really wanted to wipe out two million Palestinians, they have enough firepower to do that. And they've demonstrated that repeatedly over the last year, that they have firepower beyond anything the UK could bring, to be quite frank.

And yet they're not using it. There have been more bombs dropped in Gaza than people have been killed. You know, either the IDF are the worst shots in history, or they're actually taking care with civilian lives.

You don't give vaccines for polio to the entire child population of Gaza if you're trying to destroy them. You don't facilitate twice the amount of food aid going into Gaza as was going in before the war, if you're trying to kill everyone. You don't put ground troops into harm's way and have 3,000 families in Israel who are now having to deal with the death and the injury of their loved ones.

You know, why on earth would you do these things if all you wanted to do was to destroy Palestinians or Gazans as an ethnic group? It just doesn't make any sense...

[...] I don't think Israel should have put an embargo on food. You know, it's not something I would support.

However, if we look at the statistics, twice as much food has gone into Gaza during the war as beforehand, over 3,000 calories per person per day, which should be enough to survive on. During the ceasefire period in early January, we saw enough food going into Gaza that should have lasted between 3 and 6 months for every person in Gaza.

We know Hamas is hoarding the aid supplies. We know that they have warehouses full of aid that they have been using to withhold from the population so they can control them and so that they can sell it to pay their fighters.

We know that the UN has bucketloads of aid that has already been cleared for distribution by Israel [...] and yet the UN won't distribute it because they won't work with the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation.

So whilst on the surface it looks appalling, and I agree -- I still state again they shouldn't have put an aid block in, that has now been lifted. There is enough aid in Gaza. The issue is with distribution, and we have to once again insert Hamas into this conversation. There are two sides to this war.

Israel is trying to feed people. Hamas are trying to retain the aid themselves and starve their own population. The UN is refusing to deliver food because they won't work with the IDF and the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. So, you can paint Israel as the bad guy, but that would be completely devoid of nuance and completely devoid of any balanced assessment of the situation.

Well, I'm glad you brought up the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, because when doing research for this interview, the problem is, Andrew, [...] You see the UN come out and say something. You see the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation come out and say something else. And you've got political commentators of all shapes and hues with their own particular narratives. And you look at this, and you go: I don't know what's true. What is actually happening? Is it the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation? Do they just randomly shoot at people? [...] I guess my question is how do you know the truth and what is going on?

I think what you've perfectly illustrated is the fact that there are two wars going on in Gaza. There's what's actually happening in Gaza and then there is the entire bubble of media and information maneuver that's going on around it. That information campaign is designed to enable Hamas survival. It's designed to force the Israelis through international pressure to a ceasefire. And it's working to an extent.

You know, we saw that letter just this week from 28 countries telling Israel to ceasefire and curiously omitting the fact that it was Hamas who turned down the last ceasefire deal. So there are two [propaganda] wars going on here...

The best Israel conversation you've ever heard ... https://youtu.be/dN2WGZZG-x0

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/dN2WGZZG-x0

[Syne]

100% accurate.

[confused2]

I have to admit Major Fox (in the OP) does make ethnic cleansing seem reasonable and potentially very easily completed.

Of the people who would rather die than accept the Israeli occupation - they have to be killed or at least very securely caged up - moving them to (say) Egypt probably isn't enough.

The propaganda war about food and toilets is a distraction.

[Syne]

At what point do we accept that willful ignorance is in the service of antisemitism?
When you repeat unfounded claims of genocide, that no other country at war would be accused of?
When you excuse every other country in the region for not helping their own ethnicity?
When you only accept the word of terrorists actually bent on genocide?

[confused2]

As this follows the post I made I'm going to assume it is (sort of) addressed to/at me.

At what point do we accept that willful ignorance is in the service of antisemitism?

There are many reasons/excuses for willful ignorance - not the least of them being a lack of willingness to accept the truth.

When you repeat unfounded claims of genocide, that no other country at war would be accused of?

If this is is indeed directed at me .. I honestly don't think I've referred to genocide in any way .. I accept that what is between the lines can be as meaningful as what isn't so if you could clarify what you think I've claimed (no evidence needed) we could perhaps move forward with that.

When you excuse every other country in the region for not helping their own ethnicity?

I don't think (for example) Iran is strong enough to challenge Israel/America until/unless they are able to launch a preemptive nuclear strike. I am simply stating what I believe to be a fact - I honestly don't think I've previously commented on any help or lack thereof .. I accept that what is between the lines can be as meaningful as what isn't so if you could clarify what you think I've excused (no evidence needed) we could perhaps move forward with that.

When you only accept the word of terrorists actually bent on genocide?

Certainly I don't accept a fuzzy film clip of one person killing another as proof that all Palestinians are killed by other Palestinians .. that's more to do with with thinking that what some folk think is 'evidence' of one thing may actually be evidence of something else.

[Syne]

Both the definition and charge of ethnic cleansing is often disputed, with some researchers including and others excluding coercive assimilation or mass killings as a means of depopulating an area of a particular group, or calling it a euphemism for genocide or cultural genocide. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing

The question stands. When you repeat unfounded claims of ethnic cleansing, that no other country at war would be accused of?
Israel has not called for Palestinians to leave Gaza.

Challenge? Who said anything about challenging anyone? I was talking about humanitarian aid, refugee resettlement, etc.. Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, or Syria could help... if they wanted to. Why should Israel care more about Palestinians than these Arab Muslim countries?

[Magical Realist]

The question stands. When you repeat unfounded claims of ethnic cleansing, that no other country at war would be accused of?

You've gotta be kidding. You are really ignorant of all the cases in history of nations and empires committing ethnic cleansing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_et..._campaigns

"The practice of “ethnic cleansing,” used most notably in the former Yugoslavia, aims to artificially create geographic zones (usually using violent methods) in which the population is composed exclusively of persons of the same nationality or ethnicity. Such policies violate the rules of legitimate governance as foreseen and accepted by the international community.

States have adopted resolutions, decisions, and conventions prohibiting racial or any other form of discrimination. The UN on this rationale imposed economic and diplomatic sanctions in protest against the policies of apartheid carried out by the South African government. Individuals who perpetrated acts of ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia can be prosecuted by the International Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, which was set up in 1993 and has jurisdiction over ethnic cleansing and other grave violations of the laws of war, crimes against humanity, and genocide that were committed in the former Yugoslavia since 1 January 1991. Such practices amount to war crimes or crimes against humanity in the Statute of the International Criminal Court.

In times of conflict, the acts of violence that make up the practice of ethnic cleansing are war crimes. For instance, international humanitarian law prohibit methods of warfare whose primary purpose is to spread terror among the civilian population and forced displacement of populations and deportation.
Perpetrators of such acts are subject to the penal sanctions foreseen by humanitarian law."--- https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/conte...cleansing/

[confused2]

The question stands. When you repeat unfounded claims of ethnic cleansing, that no other country at war would be accused of? Israel has not called for Palestinians to leave Gaza.

Actually it was Major Fox in the OP who prompted my comment by saying Egypt could simply open the border with Gaza (you want me to find the line?) .. I'm English and you are American .. I can assure you the comment "making ethnic cleansing seem reasonable and potentially very easily completed." is neither a compliment nor an indication of approval.

[Syne]

The question stands. When you repeat unfounded claims of ethnic cleansing, that no other country at war would be accused of?

You've gotta be kidding. You are really ignorant of all the cases in history of nations and empires committing ethnic cleansing?

Let me say it simple, just for you.
No other country at war has been accused of genocide or ethnic cleansing with similar circumstances as this war.

As the OP said, "If they really wanted to wipe out two million Palestinians, they have enough firepower to do that." And the supposed starvation genocide has only led to the deaths of 154 people since Oct 2023. You have to be a moron if you really think that's is what genocide or ethnic cleansing looks like.

---

The question stands. When you repeat unfounded claims of ethnic cleansing, that no other country at war would be accused of? Israel has not called for Palestinians to leave Gaza.

Actually it was Major Fox in the OP who prompted my comment by saying Egypt could simply open the border with Gaza (you want me to find the line?) .. I'm English and you are American .. I can assure you the comment "making ethnic cleansing seem reasonable and potentially very easily completed." is neither a compliment nor an indication of approval.

Yes, Egypt could open its border, but that has not been pushed by Israel.
I never assumed you meant "ethnic cleansing" as a "compliment [or] indication of approval. It did seem like you implied that was Israel's intent.

[Magical Realist]

As the OP said, "If they really wanted to wipe out two million Palestinians, they have enough firepower to do that."

LOL Not with the whole world watching. Israel has to mind its p's and q's lest it lose any of its credibility and virtue as one amongst hundreds of democracies around the world. This isn't the Dark Ages. There is now international law and the Geneva Convention and all sorts of ethical standards for how you behave as a nation. That's why it has to accomplish its ethnic cleansing carefully and gradually over the years, year after year pushing Palestinians to the brink of extinction all the while being funded by the US.