Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum

Due to the timing, it crossed everyone's mind that it was to distract from the negative Gaza publicity. But an additional motive would be the wild-shot hope that the regime in Iran might collapse in the process, resulting in assorted terrorist organizations like Hamas losing their funding source. A final "no hope now" back-breaker that might at least weaken Hamas recruiting and speed up the end to the horrors of Gaza. (Hamas is recruiting 30,000 new fighters—no skills required)
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US Weighs Deeper Involvement in Israel’s Illegal Attacks Against Iran
https://truthout.org/articles/us-weighs-...inst-iran/

INTRO: Israel began its war on Iran on June 12, with an attack that seemed intended to distract global attention from its genocide in Gaza. Since then, the Israeli regime has killed at least 11 top Iranian generals and struck nuclear sites and missile launchers, in addition to residential buildings and civilian infrastructure. By the fifth day, Israel had damaged Iran’s energy installations, nuclear infrastructure, command centers, and the state television station.

Iran has responded to the Israeli assault by shooting missiles into Israel, many of which have been intercepted by Israel’s “Iron Dome” system, which the U.S. helps fund and support. As of June 17, Iran’s health ministry reported that Israeli strikes had killed at least 224 people and wounded more than 1,800 in Iran. Independent observers place the death toll within Iran at over 600. At least 24 Israelis have been killed and about 600 wounded.

[...] In March, Tulsi Gabbard, U.S. director of national intelligence, testified to Congress that the intelligence community “continues to assess that Iran is not building a nuclear weapon and Supreme Leader Khamenei has not authorized the nuclear weapons program he suspended in 2003.”

But when reporters confronted Trump with Gabbard’s testimony, Trump was in denial. “I don’t care what she said,” Trump declared. “I think they were very close to having one.” (MORE - details)

Quote: Trump was in denial. “I don’t care what she said,” Trump declared. “I think they were very close to having one.”

Trump can't even read his morning briefs. He's certainly not going to let a little thing like a fact get in the way of looking like the great deal maker, especially after his abject failure with Russia and Ukraine.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nationa...rcna209805

Ho-hum. Another far-left source saying antisemitic shit. You don't have to get any further than "Israeli regime" to know it, but to double check: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/truth-out/

In that same March testimony, Tulsi also said, "Iran's enriched uranium stockpile is at its highest levels and is unprecedented for a state without nuclear weapons." The media left that part out, which clearly stated how close Iran could've been to weaponizing their uranium.

I'm pretty sure that Israel while identifying Hamas as the source of it's initial attack, knew full well it's sights were always set on Iran. Iran has used proxies for years to interfere and coerce Israel.

It's therefore likely that Israel's strategy has been to hit the proxies first to weaken them, then they could go after Iran and not have to worry about the proxies hitting them from the sides or rear.

So it's not about turning attention away from Gaza, in fact it actually explains why they've been hitting Gaza so hard, to keep Hamas from rallying or from just the general populous of Gaza being manipulated into a stampede at the gates.

Israels methodology appears effective but at the cost of Humanity, but they might rationalize the cost of hundreds of thousands is less than the millions that would be effected if things went nuclear.

(Jun 21, 2025 01:45 PM)stryder Wrote: [ -> ]I'm pretty sure that Israel while identifying Hamas as the source of it's initial attack, knew full well it's sights were always set on Iran.  Iran has used proxies for years to interfere and coerce Israel. 

It's therefore likely that Israel's strategy has been to hit the proxies first to weaken them, then they could go after Iran and not have to worry about the proxies hitting them from the sides or rear.

So it's not about turning attention away from Gaza, in fact it actually explains why they've been hitting Gaza so hard, to keep Hamas from rallying or from just the general populous of Gaza being manipulated into a stampede at the gates.

Israels methodology appears effective but at the cost of Humanity, but they might rationalize the cost of hundreds of thousands is less than the millions that would be effected if things went nuclear.

Wow, a good take for once.

Potential package of multiple reasons, that for whatever motive the promotion of commonly tends to subsume under or overshadow with the most outstanding or frantic-generating item.
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Annual threat assessment of the US intelligence community (March 2025)
https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents...Report.pdf

EXCERPTS: We continue to assess Iran is not building a nuclear weapon and that Khamenei has not reauthorized the nuclear weapons program he suspended in 2003, though pressure has probably built on him to do so. In the past year, there has been an erosion of a decades-long taboo on discussing nuclear weapons in public that has emboldened nuclear weapons advocates within Iran’s decision-making apparatus. Khamenei remains the final decision-maker over Iran’s nuclear program, to include any decision to develop nuclear weapons. Iran very likely aims to continue R&D of chemical and biological agents for offensive purposes. Iranian military scientists have researched chemicals that have a wide range of sedation, dissociation, and amnestic incapacitating effects, and can also be lethal.

[...] Tehran will continue its efforts to counter Israel and press the United States to leave the region by aiding and arming its loose consortium of like-minded terrorist and militant actors, known as the “Axis of Resistance.” Although the demise of the Asad regime, a key ally of Tehran, is a blow to the Axis, these actors still represent a wide range of threats. These threats include some continued Israeli vulnerability to HAMAS and Hizballah; militia attacks against U.S. forces in Iraq and Syria; and the threat of Huthi missile and UAV attacks targeting Israel and maritime traffic transiting near Yemen. Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei continues to desire to avoid embroiling Iran in an expanded, direct conflict with the United States and its allies.

[...] Iran has fielded a large quantity of ballistic and cruise missiles as well as UAVs that can strike throughout the region and continues efforts to improve their accuracy, lethality, and reliability. Iran’s defense industry has a robust development and manufacturing capacity, especially for low-cost weapons such as small UAV. However, the limited damage Iran’s strikes in April and October 2024 inflicted on Israel highlights the shortcomings of Iran’s conventional military options. Iran has also deployed small boats and submarines capable of disrupting shipping traffic through the Strait of Hormuz. Its ground and air forces, while among the largest in the region, suffer from outdated equipment and limited training.

[...] Tehran intends for its expanding relationships with other key U.S. adversaries and the Global South to mitigate U.S. efforts to isolate the regime and blunt the impact of Western sanctions. Tehran’s diplomatic efforts—including at times outreach to Europe—are likely to continue with varying degrees of success. In the past year, Iran has focused extensively on deepening ties with Russia—including through military cooperation for its war in Ukraine—and has relied on China as a key political and economic partner to help it mitigate economic and diplomatic pressure. Iran is also making progress developing closer diplomatic and defense ties to African states and other actors in the Global South and is trying to build on nascent improvements in its ties with other regional actors, such as Saudi Arabia, despite continued mutual suspicion over each other’s ultimate visions for the region.

History shows us that if we don't have a reason for bombing a middle eastern nation back to the stone age, then we'll make one up. Bush's campaign against Iraq--"well he might not have WMDs but he would've eventually." The same slippery slope logic is being applied to Iran now. "well they weren't actually about to have nuclear bombs, but they would've eventually." Israel outright lied about it and called their own attack on Iran "preemptive". It was not. Are we really willing to get dragged into another war?

“It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.”
― Voltaire

(Jun 21, 2025 08:07 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]History shows us that if we don't have a reason for bombing a middle eastern nation back to the stone age, then we'll make one up. Bush's campaign against Iraq--"well he might not have WMDs but he would've eventually." The same slippery slope logic is being applied to Iran now. "well they weren't actually about to have nuclear bombs, but they would've eventually." Israel outright lied about it and called their own attack on Iran "preemptive". It was not. Are we really willing to get dragged into another war?

Now you're just an shameless antisemite. When I thought you couldn't sink much lower. Good job, piece of shit.

Most intelligence agencies agreed about Iraq at the time. The bigger problem was the US thinking they could orchestrate regime change and set up a democracy that didn't originate from within. Having learned from that, no one is talking about regime change or nation building with Iran. Yes, the ayatollahs might end up needing to be killed, but even so, no one is interested in nation building. Israel doesn't have the manpower and the US has learned its lesson and has no taste for it.

There is no war to be dragged into. Israel already has command of the skies over Iran, so a few US bombing runs have little to no risk. And no one, except morons like you, is taking about any kind of troop involvement.

Iran has already enriched uranium beyond the quantities or necessities for power plants... not to mention an oil rich country having no need for nuclear power. Odd how the idiot left fearmongers about nuclear power domestically but demands it for the leading global sponsor of terrorism. You don't build bomb resistant bunkers for your nuclear program, and deny IAEA inspectors access, unless you are planning to violate agreements against weaponizing.

Israel can't afford to "wait and see." If they did, they would cease to exist.
Antisemites like you would love that.

If the only reason you unconditionally support Israel is because you think not doing so is anti-semitic, then you've ceased thinking honestly for yourself. It's so easy to reduce complex issues to the simplistic matter of what team to root for, isn't it? Never having to think thru the consequences of your stoic loyalty and summarily dismissing any conflicting information as just fabricated nonsense.

(Jun 21, 2025 11:05 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]If the only reason you unconditionally support Israel is because you think not doing so is anti-semitic, then you've ceased thinking honestly for yourself. It's so easy to reduce complex issues to the simplistic matter of what team to root for, isn't it? Never having to think thru the consequences of your stoic loyalty and just summarily dismissing any conflicting information as just fabricated nonsense.

No, I'm just not a soft-headed bleeding-heart moron.
Alleviating suffering, only to leave people at the deprivations of terrorists is no mercy... Palestinians as well as Israelis.
If Hamas and the Palestinian Authority were not such threats, Israel wouldn't have limited their ability to cross into Israel for work, food, etc.. But that's exact what Hamas, the PA, and Iran wanted. To use the Palestinian civilians as a PR pawn in their proxy war. And evil-abetting dipshit leftists like you are fooled every single time... even when they use Palestinians (schools and hospitals) as human shields and commit terrorism that requires tightened security, locked down borders, blockades, and strikes.
Palestinians, including the West bank, elected authoritarian terrorists. There is no reason Israel should suffer for their choices.
Israel, on the hand, is has been surrounded by countries that openly call for their genocide. Again, when people tell you who they are, believe them.

Now because of antisemites in the media, UN, etc., evil morons like you are happy to demonize Israel... just because it fits your larger political narrative of successful, white-looking people always being the oppressors of darker, poorer people. That is the only unconditional support here. You and your politics, that you'll defend even if it allies you with antisemites, terrorists, child killers, etc.. You're simplistic support of any perceived underdog, no matter the context, is the only simple-minded loyalty here.

And where I have no personal reason to be loyal to Israel (my life would not be affected by the destruction of Israel), you have every reason to be loyal to your politics. It's what affirms that you, personally, are an oppressed underdog, and why you find common cause with even the most superficial underdogs... no matter how evil.