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Zinjanthropos
Oct 12, 2016 10:25 PM
(Oct 12, 2016 09:25 PM)Leigha Wrote: I wonder if there is a way (or ever will be a way) to prove that ghosts exist in a scientific way, though? If we can't prove things in a scientific way, does that mean that they don't exist?
Why can't unbelievers simply say ''that's not explainable through science,'' why the need to completely dismiss that ghosts might exist? Just curious on that point.
In almost every ghost story, the apparition does something unusual. For once I'd like to see a ghost pick up a pen and paper, write about what it sees, hears or if it has any concerns. Then I'd like to see it hand the note to the nearest person who can read. Next have a sit down with the living and try and solve any problems. I mean these ghosts can do just about anything, except what I just described.
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Magical Realist
Oct 12, 2016 10:41 PM
(This post was last modified: Oct 12, 2016 10:53 PM by Magical Realist.)
(Oct 12, 2016 10:25 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: (Oct 12, 2016 09:25 PM)Leigha Wrote: I wonder if there is a way (or ever will be a way) to prove that ghosts exist in a scientific way, though? If we can't prove things in a scientific way, does that mean that they don't exist?
Why can't unbelievers simply say ''that's not explainable through science,'' why the need to completely dismiss that ghosts might exist? Just curious on that point.
In almost every ghost story, the apparition does something unusual. For once I'd like to see a ghost pick up a pen and paper, write about what it sees, hears or if it has any concerns. Then I'd like to see it hand the note to the nearest person who can read. Next have a sit down with the living and try and solve any problems. I mean these ghosts can do just about anything, except what I just described.
OMG! Ghosts don't do what you want them to do? Well guess what? Most real things are that way. Gravty doesn't do what I want it to do when I'm moving furniture. Molecules don't do what I want them to do when my dinner gets burned. My body doesn't do what I want it to do when I get sick. One might therefore say that the very test of something's reality is that it does not conform to your whims in any way whatsoever. Ghosts are like that because they are real and beyond our present understanding. If they are unpredictable, it is because they are real, not because they are not real.
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Zinjanthropos
Oct 13, 2016 01:03 AM
(Oct 12, 2016 10:41 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: OMG! Ghosts don't do what you want them to do? Well guess what? Most real things are that way. Gravty doesn't do what I want it to do when I'm moving furniture. Molecules don't do what I want them to do when my dinner gets burned. My body doesn't do what I want it to do when I get sick. One might therefore say that the very test of something's reality is that it does not conform to your whims in any way whatsoever. Ghosts are like that because they are real and beyond our present understanding. If they are unpredictable, it is because they are real, not because they are not real.
Hold on there my friend, trying to make it sound like I believe in ghosts is weak strategy. The only thing unpredictable is the human element.
I was hoping you could do better than this. How about some scientific proof ghosts exist. I'd believe in ghosts tomorrow if I saw proof. That's why I thought the ghosts could help us out a bit. Why can't ghosts prove they exist once and for all?
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Magical Realist
Oct 13, 2016 01:30 AM
(Oct 13, 2016 01:03 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: (Oct 12, 2016 10:41 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: OMG! Ghosts don't do what you want them to do? Well guess what? Most real things are that way. Gravty doesn't do what I want it to do when I'm moving furniture. Molecules don't do what I want them to do when my dinner gets burned. My body doesn't do what I want it to do when I get sick. One might therefore say that the very test of something's reality is that it does not conform to your whims in any way whatsoever. Ghosts are like that because they are real and beyond our present understanding. If they are unpredictable, it is because they are real, not because they are not real.
Hold on there my friend, trying to make it sound like I believe in ghosts is weak strategy. The only thing unpredictable is the human element.
I was hoping you could do better than this. How about some scientific proof ghosts exist. I'd believe in ghosts tomorrow if I saw proof. That's why I thought the ghosts could help us out a bit. Why can't ghosts prove they exist once and for all?
Why doesn't reality conform to your desires? Gee...maybe because it's real. Same with ghosts.
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Syne
Oct 13, 2016 01:38 AM
(This post was last modified: Oct 13, 2016 01:45 AM by Syne.)
(Oct 12, 2016 09:25 PM)Leigha Wrote: Why can't unbelievers simply say ''that's not explainable through science,'' why the need to completely dismiss that ghosts might exist? Just curious on that point.
Why can't atheists simply say "religion's not explainable through science," why the need to completely dismiss god might exist?
Better yet, what about UFOs, which should be physical and open to scientific explanation?
(Oct 13, 2016 01:30 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: Why doesn't reality conform to your desires? Gee...maybe because it's real. Same with ghosts.
That's rich. The guy who's demanding ghosts are real lecturing about reality.
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Leigha
Oct 13, 2016 02:49 AM
(Oct 13, 2016 01:38 AM)Syne Wrote: (Oct 12, 2016 09:25 PM)Leigha Wrote: Why can't unbelievers simply say ''that's not explainable through science,'' why the need to completely dismiss that ghosts might exist? Just curious on that point.
Why can't atheists simply say "religion's not explainable through science," why the need to completely dismiss god might exist?
Better yet, what about UFOs, which should be physical and open to scientific explanation?
(Oct 13, 2016 01:30 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: Why doesn't reality conform to your desires? Gee...maybe because it's real. Same with ghosts.
That's rich. The guy who's demanding ghosts are real lecturing about reality.
I'm not an atheist, but valid point. I think that many atheists have no problem however, being open to the possibility of God existing, but until evidence proves otherwise, they don't believe. Some atheists are agnostic, though.
And religion isn't always synonymous with mere belief. I believe in God, but I don't care for ''religion.'' But, I know what you meant.
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Syne
Oct 13, 2016 03:47 AM
(Oct 13, 2016 02:49 AM)Leigha Wrote: (Oct 13, 2016 01:38 AM)Syne Wrote: Why can't atheists simply say "religion's not explainable through science," why the need to completely dismiss god might exist?
Better yet, what about UFOs, which should be physical and open to scientific explanation?
I'm not an atheist, but valid point. I think that many atheists have no problem however, being open to the possibility of God existing, but until evidence proves otherwise, they don't believe. Some atheists are agnostic, though.
And religion isn't always synonymous with mere belief. I believe in God, but I don't care for ''religion.'' But, I know what you meant.
I didn't mean to suggest you were atheist...just making the comparison. And "religion" is generally a catch-all for belief in god (though not all religions do), while "spirituality" or some other term doesn't always presume such belief.
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Leigha
Oct 13, 2016 05:11 AM
(Oct 13, 2016 03:47 AM)Syne Wrote: (Oct 13, 2016 02:49 AM)Leigha Wrote: (Oct 13, 2016 01:38 AM)Syne Wrote: Why can't atheists simply say "religion's not explainable through science," why the need to completely dismiss god might exist?
Better yet, what about UFOs, which should be physical and open to scientific explanation?
I'm not an atheist, but valid point. I think that many atheists have no problem however, being open to the possibility of God existing, but until evidence proves otherwise, they don't believe. Some atheists are agnostic, though.
And religion isn't always synonymous with mere belief. I believe in God, but I don't care for ''religion.'' But, I know what you meant.
I didn't mean to suggest you were atheist...just making the comparison. And "religion" is generally a catch-all for belief in god (though not all religions do), while "spirituality" or some other term doesn't always presume such belief. Okay.
@ Magical Realist, this is a bit off topic, and not meaning to derail this thread - but it reminds me of a thread you've created on the ''other'' forum. And all I can say, I admire your tenacity to stand up to some tough criticism. Even if in the end you are wrong, lol...you seem to do well with confrontation. As a bystander of that thread, just thought I'd share my observation.
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Magical Realist
Oct 13, 2016 05:38 AM
(Oct 13, 2016 05:11 AM)Leigha Wrote: (Oct 13, 2016 03:47 AM)Syne Wrote: (Oct 13, 2016 02:49 AM)Leigha Wrote: (Oct 13, 2016 01:38 AM)Syne Wrote: Why can't atheists simply say "religion's not explainable through science," why the need to completely dismiss god might exist?
Better yet, what about UFOs, which should be physical and open to scientific explanation?
I'm not an atheist, but valid point. I think that many atheists have no problem however, being open to the possibility of God existing, but until evidence proves otherwise, they don't believe. Some atheists are agnostic, though.
And religion isn't always synonymous with mere belief. I believe in God, but I don't care for ''religion.'' But, I know what you meant.
I didn't mean to suggest you were atheist...just making the comparison. And "religion" is generally a catch-all for belief in god (though not all religions do), while "spirituality" or some other term doesn't always presume such belief. Okay.
@ Magical Realist, this is a bit off topic, and not meaning to derail this thread - but it reminds me of a thread you've created on the ''other'' forum. And all I can say, I admire your tenacity to stand up to some tough criticism. Even if in the end you are wrong, lol...you seem to do well with confrontation. As a bystander of that thread, just thought I'd share my observation.
Tks Leigha. I'm an old hand at this.
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