Ghost in the basement cellphone video

#41
Leigha Offline
(May 12, 2024 09:49 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:
Quote:I think that’s entirely fair, but do ghosts have mass? If they’re capable of making sounds and moving things, they would have to weigh something. I’d love for there to be more clear cut answers because then I could watch the video and understand how it’s happening.

Do you only believe in phenomena when you understand how they work? That would exclude alot of natural phenomena and manmade technology too---quantum physics, consciousness, TVs, star formation, artificial intelligence, photosynthesis, economics, your cellphone, your brain, psych medications, cancer, jet engines, nuclear bombs, DNA self-replication, calculus, organic chemistry, etc. Probably the vast majority of what we believe exists is not fully understood by us. Even my own refrigerator is an inscrutable mystery to me! lol

In any case light has no mass but can still push on things. It's called radiation pressure. Here's a demonstration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifyLMuSyfdI
lol I know what you mean but those things can be explained. I wish a scientist perhaps, could explain what ghosts are and what makes them tick. If they exist. Blush
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#42
Magical Realist Offline
Quote:those things can be explained.

No scientist alive can explain how consciousness arises from our brains. It is perhaps the greatest mystery facing science. Yet everyone acknowledges the existence of consciousness. Likewise, it would be absurd to deny the existence of the paranormal simply because science can't explain it. As it is they don't even acknowledge it exists. In the meantime as this video shows hauntings are still occurring. And they show no signs of stopping any time soon.
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#43
Syne Offline
(May 12, 2024 11:45 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: No scientist alive can explain how consciousness arises from our brains. It is perhaps the greatest mystery facing science. Yet everyone acknowledges the existence of consciousness. Likewise, it would be absurd to deny the existence of the paranormal simply because science can't explain it. As it is they don't even acknowledge it exists. In the meantime as this video shows hauntings are still occurring. And they show no signs of stopping any time soon.

Everyone acknowledges the existence of what everyone can experience for themselves.

You're failing to accept the simple fact that plenty of people have never experienced a single paranormal occurrence.
It's like me telling you you're a goofarb. You have no experience of any such thing, so of course you wouldn't just believe it because someone told you, or even showed you video or pictures you can't verify for yourself.

You're essentially asking us to believe in goofarbs, based on nothing else but your insistence that that's even a thing.
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#44
Magical Realist Offline
Quote:You're failing to accept the simple fact that plenty of people have never experienced a single paranormal occurrence.

That's essentially the black swan fallacy. "There is no such things as black swans because I've never seen one." But that is not rationally justified as at any time in the future a black swan may turn up. If people only believed in what they've personally experienced, we'd be in sorry state indeed. We believe other people's claims of experience all the time. It's how the collective knowledge of our species advances over time. It is utterly disingenuous to make an exception and doubt someone's paranormal encounter simply because you don't want to believe in it.
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#45
Syne Offline
I don't think anyone in this thread, or even on this forum, has said there is no such things as ghosts or UFOs. Seems everyone qualifies it as a lack of personal experience or compelling evidence. Personally, I believe in a soul that exists independent of a body. So the basis for ghosts very much already exists in my beliefs. I do want to believe, but I won't deceive myself to do it. Claiming there is definitely no such things as ghosts is the same as an atheist claiming there is no such thing as God. The positive claim of nonexistence puts the onus on the claimant. Same with UFOs. No one's denying that many things are unidentified, but making the assertion that they are not mundane in origin is the positive claim that requires compelling evidence (and not just compelling to you personally). So your "black swan fallacy" is, itself, a straw man fallacy.

If we believe in what we experience and find compelling, finding a black swan would be instantly accepted as fact. As opposed to someone claiming goofarbs exist and just blithely accepting their word for it. We believe other people's claims of experience that are relatable to our own. If you claim you are best friends with George Clooney, I'm not likely to believe you, because without further compelling evidence, that's beyond my own experience. Similarly, if I tell you it's pretty easy to live homeless, that may fall outside of your experience.

It's completely consistent with human behavior to not accept any old thing someone tells you. Otherwise, you'd likely be continually taken advantage of and cheated. If you're such an infinitely trusting soul that's oh so precious, but also oh so dangerous. Hopefully any such people have others to look out for their well-being.
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#46
Magical Realist Offline
Noone outside of a psych ward claims to have seen or heard God. OTOH lots of people down thru history claim to have seen and heard ghosts and continue to do so. That's not just your one black swan showing up, but thousands of them reported over and over again all over the world by totally credible normal people who have no reason to be lying. Face it, they are the real deal. We share our reality with ethereal entities that occasionally make their presence known to us for whatever reasons. You now have the choice to deny again the compelling evidence in front of you or simply accept it and embrace the mystery of it. It's just one more surprising facet of our amazing and fascinating universe.

Here's an excerpt of a thread OP I posted in Sci Forums about "crisis apparitions" a few months ago. These are lucid and unexpected visitations by friends and loved ones who have just died, and it is a well known phenomenon that occurs all over the world. This is a brief excerpt of a CNN story on the phenomenon. The whole article contains several other fascinating personal accounts of crisis apparitions. Overall it is a moving and comforting glimpse of the reality of survival after death. I would think someone of your faith would welcome such evidence. But then again you're not a really soulful person are you?

CNN —

"Nina De Santo was about to close her New Jersey hair salon one winter’s night when she saw him standing outside the shop’s glass front door.

It was Michael. He was a soft-spoken customer who’d been going through a brutal patch in his life. His wife had divorced him after having an affair with his stepbrother, and he had lost custody of his boy and girl in the ensuing battle.

He was emotionally shattered, but De Santo had tried to help. She’d listened to his problems, given him pep talks, taken him out for drinks.

When De Santo opened the door that Saturday night, Michael was smiling.

“Nina, I can’t stay long,” he said, pausing in the doorway. “I just wanted to stop by and say thank you for everything.”

They chatted a bit more before Michael left and De Santo went home. On Sunday she received a strange call from a salon employee. Michael’s body had been found the previous morning – at least nine hours before she talked to him at her shop. He had committed suicide.

If Michael was dead, who, or what, did she talk to that night?

“It was very bizarre,” she said of the 2001 encounter. “I went through a period of disbelief. How can you tell someone that you saw this man, solid as ever, walk in and talk to you, but he’s dead?”

Today, De Santo has a name for what happened that night: “crisis apparition.” She stumbled onto the term while reading about paranormal activities after the incident. According to paranormal investigators, a crisis apparition is the spirit of a recently deceased person who visits someone they had a close emotional connection with, usually to say goodbye.

Reports of these eerie encounters are materializing in online discussion groups, books such as “Messages” – which features stories of people making contact with loved ones lost on September 11 – and local ghost hunting groups that have sprung up across the country amid a surge of interest in the paranormal.

Although such encounters are chilling, they can also be comforting, witnesses and paranormal investigators say. These encounters suggest the bond that exists between loved ones is not erased by death.

“We don’t know what to do with these stories. Some people say that they are proof that there’s life after death,” said Steve Volk, author of “Fringe-ology,” a book on paranormal experiences such as telepathy, psychics and house hauntings....."

"De Santo, the former New Jersey hair salon owner, has taken the same self-inventory. The experience affected her so much she later joined the Eastern Pennsylvania Paranormal Society, which investigates the paranormal.

She said she checked with Michael’s relatives and poured through a coroner’s report to confirm the time of his death, which was put at Friday night – almost 24 hours before she saw him at her salon on Saturday night.

She said Michael’s body had been discovered by his cousin around 11 Saturday morning. Michael was slumped over his kitchen table, dead from a self-inflicted gunshot.

De Santo was baffled at first, but now she has a theory.

Michael started off as a customer, but she became his confidant. Once, after one of her pep talks, Michael told her, “You make me feel as if I can conquer the world.”

Maybe Michael had to settle affairs in this world before he could move on to the next, De Santo said.

“A lot of times when a person dies tragically, there’s a certain amount of guilt or turmoil,” she said. “I don’t think they leave this Earth. They stay here. I think he kind of felt he had unfinished business. He needed to say goodbye.”

And so he did, she said. This is how she described their last conversation:

As they chatted face to face in the doorway of her shop, De Santo said they never touched, never even shook hands. But she didn’t remember anything unusual about him – no disembodied voice, no translucent body, no “I see dead people” vibe as in the movie “The Sixth Sense.”

“I’m in a really good place now,” she recalled him saying.

There were, however, two odd details she noticed at the time but couldn’t put together until later, she said.

When she first opened the door to greet Michael, she said she felt an unsettling chill. Then she noticed his face – it was grayish and pale.

And when she held the door open for him, he refused to come in. He just chatted before finally saying, “Thanks again, Nina.”

Michael then smiled at her, turned and walked away into the winter’s night."---
https://www.cnn.com/2011/09/23/living/cr...index.html
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#47
Zinjanthropos Offline
I have yet to sense a paranormal event in this video. MR is doing a good job trying to convince us a paranormal event is taking place. Makes me wonder how much of paranormal is psychological, like magic tricks.
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#49
Magical Realist Offline
(May 13, 2024 04:40 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Wasn’t going to use this but I think one can draw comparison with paranormal thinking.

https://www.alanhudson.net/article/psych...processes.

LOL So NOW you're saying the homeowners in that video are secretly magicians and have somehow pulled off an amazing feat of someone seemingly invisible charging up the stairs? You are pretty much scraping the bottom of the barrel at this point aren't you?
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#50
Syne Offline
Yeah...typical "true believer" tactic of going on and on about a bunch of other equally dubious tales, as if collecting enough grief induced delusions proves anything other than the fact that many human minds tend to react similarly when they break. If that wasn't true, we wouldn't have the DSM or any classifications of mental illness. Between that and the mind's tendency toward pareidolia, parsimony doesn't require postulating superfluous disembodied spirits.

Who said anything about people seeing and hearing God? As usual, you completely miss and fairly simple point.
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