Ghost in the basement cellphone video

(Jun 1, 2024 11:04 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:

Quote:You think it makes "prefect sense" that purely biological evolution somehow developed complete independence from a physical organism?
Organism evolves and evolves and evolves, then suddenly, poof, no more need for an organism?

And so it always is. Seabound organisms evolve and evolve in water and then suddenly, poof, no more need for being in the water. Single-celled organisms evolve and evolve and then suddenly, poof, multicellular organisms. Technology may be seen as the human equivalent of such evolutionary quantum leaps. It's called emergence or punctuated equilibrium. Study up on it sometime.

Still having problems with simple analogies, huh?
Seabound organisms are still organisms when they evolve to leave the sea. Same with single/multi-cell organisms.
Evolution only ever operates on organisms. It doesn't magically make an organisms not an organism. That is what your "evolve into spirits" nonsense is claiming. That somehow, magically, evolution can make organisms no longer organisms.

Technology isn't evolution. Evolution is a biology term, and you'd be equivocating between differing definitions to claim biological and technological developments are analogous. You know, aside from the fact that technology is a red herring that has nothing to do with spirits.

But keep digging. I'm curious if you'll reach China before you give up.

Syne…are you saying that if disembodied spirits evolve from humans, then so did the Supreme Spirit (God)?

MR is saying there’s more proof of spirits than a god.

By all things evolutionary, the Earth should be overrun by spirits but we’re not. Obviously a scant few spirits don’t make the leap to the spirit realm and remain here for awhile. The visible or detected earthbound spirits are then considered proof of evolved spirits by some, whereas the vast majority simply vanish to the other realm with no proof they exist all, anywhere. God then is part of this large contingent of spirits there’s no proof of.

If so I would agree with Syne that MR is arguing for a god to exist.

Quote:Evolution only ever operates on organisms.

Evolution at the material level gives way to evolution on the conscious level which in turn gives way to evolution on the spiritual level. We see this in humans and even in animals who develop into more refined and self-aware beings. Everything develops into higher forms. It's the way of the universe. But don't worry. I don't really expect you to grasp this. You have about as much aspiration to evolve as a conscious being as a turnip does.

Quote:Evolution is a biology term, and you'd be equivocating between differing definitions to claim biological and technological developments are analogous.

Evolution is not restricted to protoplasm in any sense. As defined more broadly below it refers to the gradual development of anything, from matter to stars to life to culture to technology to consciousness itself. Technology, and particularly AI, is simply the continued evolution of our species into other realms of being.

evolution (n)

the gradual development of something, especially from a simple to a more complex form.
"the forms of written languages undergo constant evolution"
Similar:
development
advancement
growth
rise
progress
progression
expansion
extension
unfolding
transformation

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Quote:By all things evolutionary, the Earth should be overrun by spirits but we’re not. Obviously a scant few spirits don’t make the leap to the spirit realm and remain here for awhile. The visible or detected earthbound spirits are then considered proof of evolved spirits by some, whereas the vast majority simply vanish to the other realm with no proof they exist all, anywhere. God then is part of this large contingent of spirits there’s no proof of.

The common phenomenon of bereavement apparitions earlier posted about in this thread certainly confirms the existence of spirits who move on and say goodbye to loved ones. Funny though but we never see God making an appearance. And since he's really just a storybook character of primitive human cultures, nobody should be expecting him to either. As usual, we let the evidence speak for itself.

(Jun 2, 2024 03:29 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Syne…are you saying that if disembodied spirits evolve from humans, then so did the Supreme Spirit (God)?

MR is saying there’s more proof of spirits than a god.

No, MR's saying both. That there's more "evidence" of spirits and that biological evolution could lead to disembodied spirits.
I'm simply saying, if disembodied spirits exist at all, they must have a different origin than biological evolution. Otherwise, biological evolution somehow made non-biological spirits.

(Jun 2, 2024 04:00 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:

Quote:Evolution only ever operates on organisms.

Evolution at the material level gives way to evolution on the conscious level which in turn gives way to evolution on the spiritual level.

Again, you're simply equivocating the meaning of evolution across several disparate definitions.
Playing with words is just a game. You cannot show any evidence or rational argument how biological evolution could make the leap to non-biological evolution.
Arm-waving about minds evolving and then magically becoming disembodied is no argument.

Quote:

Quote:Evolution is a biology term, and you'd be equivocating between differing definitions to claim biological and technological developments are analogous.

Evolution is not restricted to protoplasm in any sense. As defined below it refers to the gradual development of anything, from matter to stars to life to technology to consciousness itself. Technology, and particularly AI, is simply the continued evolution of our species into other realms of being.

If you can't understand the very simple notion that you're making a leap from biological evolution to something completely different, reason is apparently beyond your grasp.

So be it.

Quote:If you can't understand the very simple notion that you're making a leap from biological evolution to something completely different, reason is apparently beyond your grasp.

I AM saying it's a leap to something completely different, just as the leap from a fish to a salamander was, or a euglena to a sponge, or a hominid to an AI cyborg will be. I already went over how this leaping is a pattern with evolution. And I showed it to be likewise the case between physical flesh and consciousness. There is no reason to think it impossible simply because it isn't still evolution in the strict Darwinian sense. Evolution itself evolves as a process and changes and becomes something new and different over time. But the end product always seems to be greater complexity and novelty.

No, you're just woefully ignorant of basic biological evolution. Biological evolution never leads to anything other than another organism.
I've already told you this so many times that it's quite obvious that you're incapable of understanding the bare bones basics of evolution.
You just keep on making a category error, conflating biological evolution with technological and spiritual development. We agree that that is a completely unjustified leap. But it's not the leap from one organism to a slightly different organism... unless you're also a biological-evolution-denying creationist.

As usual, you're just a run of the mill scientifically illiterate nutter.

Quote:No, you're just woefully ignorant of basic biological evolution. Biological evolution never leads to anything other than another organism.

Yep...just as cultural evolution leads to cultural advancements, and technological evolution leads to new technologies, and linguistic evolution leads to new languages, and human evolution leads to new forms of human being. Just as I've laid out. There is no restriction of the general principle of evolution to mere protoplasmic bodies.

Quote:We agree that that is a completely unjustified leap.

You got a turd in your pocket?

Yes, if you're scientifically illiterate and can't manage to distinguish between scientific terms and general definitions, I guess crude... well, I'm not even sure that counts as an ad hom, nor even an insult. Seems more like a scatological fetish.