Russian Ukraine Invasion

RainbowUnicorn Offline
(Jun 7, 2022 01:57 PM)C C Wrote:
(Jun 7, 2022 10:34 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote: Russians raped, looted and attack civilians and destroy entire citys
just like Orcs
they have earned the name by their actions.


Looting for food and bare necessities shouldn't be unexpected. 

In the late '70s and very early '80s, after the Vietnam conflict ended, the Vietnamese selling leftover commercial goods in the streets (remnants of capitalism) used to call the visiting Soviets "Americans without money".

Over the last decade, however, Russian tourists spent more in Vietnam than South Koreans and Japanese.

But the military apparently still enjoys USSR level amenities, with perhaps the rest of the country now experiencing similar nostalgia via sanctions.

watching the endless news videos of elderly people being bombed out of their houses and apartment buildings by Russia,
 i hope the nostalgia of the Russian economy escalates to epic proportions.
making the average Russian care is the only means to change the minds of their leadership
& the average Russian will only care when they struggle to buy food.

i expect Russia will look to its submarines to use some of their cruise missiles

(Jun 7, 2022 12:50 PM)Kornee Wrote:
(Jun 7, 2022 10:34 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote:
(Jun 7, 2022 06:03 AM)Kornee Wrote: Well it is extremely popular and exactly in step with the incessant narrative of entire 'Western world' saturation propaganda offensive, to demonize Russian soldiers (or Russians in general) as sub-human 'orcs'. Dirty orcs at that. Once again, for those willing to consider a very different and yes unpopular take on what's actually unfolding and the wider backdrop to it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcp0TYx_eUI

Russians raped, looted and attack civilians and destroy entire citys
just like Orcs
they have earned the name by their actions.

Kornee


No military on any side in any significant engagement throughout history has ever had a squeaky clean pristine record.

no military has perfect what ?

its not about being perfect
its about sustained deliberate targeting of civilians and the endless storys of rape and torture coming out from victims and the mass graves of civilian created by the dirty Orcs

and Russia is using food  as a weapon by blocking ports in Odessa

dirty Orcs
Reply
Kornee Offline
(Jun 7, 2022 09:48 PM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote:
(Jun 7, 2022 12:50 PM)Kornee Wrote:
(Jun 7, 2022 10:34 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote:
(Jun 7, 2022 06:03 AM)Kornee Wrote: Well it is extremely popular and exactly in step with the incessant narrative of entire 'Western world' saturation propaganda offensive, to demonize Russian soldiers (or Russians in general) as sub-human 'orcs'. Dirty orcs at that. Once again, for those willing to consider a very different and yes unpopular take on what's actually unfolding and the wider backdrop to it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcp0TYx_eUI

Russians raped, looted and attack civilians and destroy entire citys
just like Orcs
they have earned the name by their actions.

Kornee


No military on any side in any significant engagement throughout history has ever had a squeaky clean pristine record.

no military has perfect what ?

its not about being perfect
its about sustained deliberate targeting of civilians and the endless storys of rape and torture coming out from victims and the mass graves of civilian created by the dirty Orcs

and Russia is using food  as a weapon by blocking ports in Odessa

dirty Orcs
There is likely another, primary, reason for Odessa port blockade. Preventing inbound shipping of even more advanced Western weaponry. To enable the US & 'friends' to fight Russia to the very last Ukrainian. Exceptions of course for comedy -> drama actor Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelenskyy and fellow 'special Ukrainians'.

I get the impression that for sure you have not watched that interview with Richard Black. Because if you had, confrontation with the 'good side's' actual, deliberate use of starvation (and condoning wholesale rape) - 'Plan B' - against Syrian civilian population would maybe have stirred a conscience. And given some actual broader perspective, re ostensible 'fighting for truth, justice, AND the American/NATO/EU way'.
What we have in western MSM tightly coordinated & scripted, selectively reported accounts, is imo indeed a comic book presentation. By no means the first such.
Reply
RainbowUnicorn Offline
(Jun 8, 2022 04:24 AM)Kornee Wrote:
(Jun 7, 2022 09:48 PM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote:
(Jun 7, 2022 12:50 PM)Kornee Wrote:
(Jun 7, 2022 10:34 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote:
(Jun 7, 2022 06:03 AM)Kornee Wrote: Well it is extremely popular and exactly in step with the incessant narrative of entire 'Western world' saturation propaganda offensive, to demonize Russian soldiers (or Russians in general) as sub-human 'orcs'. Dirty orcs at that. Once again, for those willing to consider a very different and yes unpopular take on what's actually unfolding and the wider backdrop to it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcp0TYx_eUI

Russians raped, looted and attack civilians and destroy entire citys
just like Orcs
they have earned the name by their actions.

Kornee


No military on any side in any significant engagement throughout history has ever had a squeaky clean pristine record.

no military has perfect what ?

its not about being perfect
its about sustained deliberate targeting of civilians and the endless storys of rape and torture coming out from victims and the mass graves of civilian created by the dirty Orcs

and Russia is using food  as a weapon by blocking ports in Odessa

dirty Orcs

Kornee

There is likely another, primary, reason for Odessa port blockade.

so you pick and choose what you believe regardless of the facts
Reply
Kornee Offline
(Jun 8, 2022 05:39 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote: [quote pid="51111" dateline="1654658675"]
Kornee

There is likely another, primary, reason for Odessa port blockade.

"so you pick and choose what you believe regardless of the facts"[/quote]

I'm not and have not claimed Russia for sure is not maybe using the blockade as *also* a starvation threat as coercive pressure to try and force a negotiated settlement.

[However it would be a rather indirect 'starvation threat', since Ukraine itself would not be facing starvation. The UN claim is Russian action is creating starvation threats in 3rd world aka 'developing' countries. I severely doubt Putin would actually institute a blockade with that effect in mind and be stupid enough to think it would help rather than hinder Russia's cause.]

You on the other hand simply avoid any discussion of what is brought out in that interview with Richard Black. Doesn't suit your distorted but extremely mainstream approved take on the Ukraine situation.
I'm trying to keep this civil but it's not easy.
Reply
RainbowUnicorn Offline
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61607184

The Russian soldiers refusing to fight in Ukraine
By Olesya Gerasimenko and Kateryna Khinkulova
BBC World Service

Some Russian troops are refusing to return to fight in Ukraine because of their experiences on the front line at the start of the invasion, according to Russian human rights lawyers and activists. The BBC has been speaking to one such soldier.
"I don't want to go [back to Ukraine] to kill and be killed," says Sergey - not his real name - who spent five weeks fighting in Ukraine earlier this year.
He is now home in Russia, having taken legal advice to avoid being sent back to the front line. Sergey is just one of hundreds of Russian soldiers understood to have been seeking such advice.
Sergey says he is traumatised by his experience in Ukraine.
"I had thought that we were the Russian army, the most super-duper in the world," says the young man bitterly. Instead they were expected to operate without even basic equipment, such as night vision devices, he says

"We were like blind kittens. I'm shocked by our army. It wouldn't cost much to equip us. Why wasn't it done?"

Sergey joined the army as a conscript - most Russian men between the ages of 18-27 must complete one year of compulsory military service. But, after a few months, he made the decision to sign a two-year professional contract which would also give him a salary.
In January, Sergey was sent near the border with Ukraine for what he was told would be military drills. A month later - 24 February, the day Russia launched its invasion - he was told to cross the border. Almost immediately his unit found itself under attack.
As they stopped for the evening in an abandoned farm, their commander said: "Well, as you will have worked out by now, this is not a joke."

Sergey says he was completely shocked.
"My first thoughts were 'Is this really happening to me?'"
They were continually shelled, he says, both when moving and when parked overnight. In his unit of 50 people, 10 were killed and 10 others wounded. Almost all his comrades were under the age of 25.

He heard of Russian servicemen so inexperienced that they "did not know how to shoot and couldn't tell one end of a mortar from another".
He says his convoy - travelling through northern Ukraine - broke up after just four days when a bridge they were about to cross exploded, killing comrades ahead of them.
In another incident, Sergey says he had to overtake comrades trapped inside a burning vehicle in front of him.
"It was blown up from a grenade launcher or something else. It caught fire and there were [Russian] soldiers inside. We drove around it and on, firing as we went. I didn't look back."

His unit moved on through the Ukrainian countryside, but there was a clear lack of strategy, he says. Reinforcements failed to arrive and soldiers were poorly equipped for the task of taking a large city.
"We went without helicopters - just in a column, as though we were heading to a parade."

He believes his commanders had planned to capture strongholds and key cities very quickly - and had calculated that the Ukrainians would simply surrender.
"We rushed forward with short overnight stays, without trenches, without reconnaissance. We didn't leave anyone in the rear, so if someone decided to come in from behind and hit us there was no protection.
"I think that [so many of] our guys died largely because of this. If we had moved gradually, if we had checked the roads for mines many losses could have been avoided."
Sergey's complaints about lack of equipment have also emerged in phone conversations alleged to be between Russian soldiers and their families, intercepted and posted online by the Ukrainian security services.

At the beginning of April, Sergey was sent back over the border to a camp on the Russian side. Troops had been withdrawn from northern Ukraine and appeared to be regrouping for an assault in the east. Later that month he received an order to return to Ukraine - but told his commander that he was not prepared to go.

"He said it was my choice. They didn't even [try to] dissuade us, because we weren't the first," Sergey told the BBC. But, he had been sufficiently worried about his unit's reaction to his refusal that he decided to seek legal advice.
A lawyer told Sergey and two like-minded colleagues to return their arms and go back to their unit's headquarters - where they should file a letter explaining that they were "morally and psychologically exhausted" and could not continue fighting in Ukraine.
Sergey was told that returning to the unit was important because simply leaving could be interpreted as desertion, which can result in a two-year sentence in a disciplinary battalion.
Army commanders try to intimidate contract soldiers into staying with their units, according to Russian human rights lawyer Alexei Tabalov. But he stresses that Russian military law does include clauses which allow soldiers to refuse to fight if they don't want to.
Human rights activist Sergei Krivenko says he is not aware of any prosecutions of those refusing to return to the front.
That is not to say that prosecutions are not being attempted.

One commander in northern Russia requested a criminal case be brought against his subordinate who would not return to Ukraine, but a military prosecutor refused to proceed, according to documents seen by the BBC. Such an action would be "premature" without having assessed the harm to the military service he was involved in, the prosecutor said.
And there is no guarantee that more prosecutions might not emerge in the future.
Soldiers like Sergey - reluctant to return to the front line - are not unusual, according to Ruslan Leviev, the editor of Conflict Intelligence Team, a media project investigating the experiences of the Russian military in Ukraine through confidential interviews and open source material.
Leviev says his team estimates a sizeable minority of the Russian contract soldiers sent to Ukraine to fight in the initial invasion refused to go back again.

Independent Russian media have also been reporting hundreds of cases of soldiers refusing repeat deployments to Ukraine since the beginning of April.
Several lawyers and human rights activists the BBC spoke to said they had been regularly offering advice to men trying to avoid returning to Ukraine. Each of our interviewees had dealt with dozens of cases and believed those soldiers were also sharing advice with their colleagues.
Although Sergey does not want to return to the front line, he does want to complete his outstanding military service in Russia to avoid any unforeseen consequences. But that means that - while his letter of refusal to fight was accepted - there are no guarantees he won't be sent back to Ukraine during his service period.
"I can see that the war continues, it is not going away," he told the BBC. "In these months [of compulsory military service] that I have left, anything - including the worst - could happen."
Reply
stryder Offline
(Jun 8, 2022 05:50 AM)Kornee Wrote:
(Jun 8, 2022 05:39 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote: [quote pid="51111" dateline="1654658675"]
Kornee

There is likely another, primary, reason for Odessa port blockade.

"so you pick and choose what you believe regardless of the facts"

I'm not and have not claimed Russia for sure is not maybe using the blockade as *also* a starvation threat as coercive pressure to try and force a negotiated settlement.

[However it would be a rather indirect 'starvation threat', since Ukraine itself would not be facing starvation. The UN claim is Russian action is creating starvation threats in 3rd world aka 'developing' countries. I severely doubt Putin would actually institute a blockade with that effect in mind and be stupid enough to think it would help rather than hinder Russia's cause.]

You on the other hand simply avoid any discussion of what is brought out in that interview with Richard Black. Doesn't suit your distorted but extremely mainstream approved take on the Ukraine situation.
I'm trying to keep this civil but it's not easy.
[/quote]

The usages of starvation as a tool to "attack" third-world countries creates instability in those regions. The absence (or threat of absence) of food leads to riots and warfare in those regions, which increases the casuality numbers beyond just the Ukraine. Such instability is likely done on purposes not just as a "bargaining chip" to get what Russia wants from those that oppose them, but to attempt to open their PMC operations up in those areas further.

The further warfare/rioting and instability ensues, the more likelihood that such mercenaries would be required to guard various mines (incidentally opening up their capacity to access goods/materials they are currently under sanctions for and aiding conflict materials on the open market.) or presidential palaces etc. In essence it's a very corrupt way of attempting to cement themselves further in such countries affairs.

Putins Russia from my perspective is literally what the Cartels of South America would attempt to achieve if left unimpeded. (In essence Putin is a Cartel)
Reply
Kornee Offline
(Jun 8, 2022 01:42 PM)stryder Wrote: The usages of starvation as a tool to "attack" third-world countries creates instability in those regions.  The absence (or threat of absence) of food leads to riots and warfare in those regions, which increases the casuality numbers beyond just the Ukraine.  Such instability is likely done on purposes not just as a "bargaining chip" to get what Russia wants from those that oppose them, but to attempt to open their PMC operations up in those areas further.

The further warfare/rioting and instability ensues, the more likelihood that such mercenaries would be required to guard various mines (incidentally opening up their capacity to access goods/materials they are currently under sanctions for and aiding conflict materials on the open market.) or presidential palaces etc.  In essence it's a very corrupt way of attempting to cement themselves further in such countries affairs.

Putins Russia from my perspective is literally what the Cartels of South America would attempt to achieve if left unimpeded.  (In essence Putin is a Cartel)
That obviously speculative take might be at least partly true. Or not. If it is then Putin has a very long standing model to imitate. CIA ops worldwide, but especially in the USAs 'backyard' of central/south America.
Reply
RainbowUnicorn Offline
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61726733

Ukraine grain shortage may hit 15 million tonnes by autumn

Ukraine may have a grain storage capacity deficit of 10-15 million tonnes by the end of autumn
but the government is trying to resolve the problem, the country's Deputy Agricultural Minister, Markiyan Dmytrasevych said.
Ukraine had 85 million tonnes worth of grain storage capacity before Russia began its invasion on 24 February.
However, Ukraine now only has access to 60 million tonnes worth of storage capacity because of destroyed infrastructure and Russia's occupation of the country.
Russia's invasion of Ukraine could soon cause a global food crisis that may last for years, the UN has warned.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61736179

What do the Russians say?
Yevgeny Balitsky, in charge of Russian-held areas in Zaporizhzhia region, said grain had left the region on freight trains bound for Crimea - which Russia annexed in 2014 - and, from there, the Middle East.
He told Russian state TV "the main contracts are being concluded with Turkey" - without giving details.
A spokesman for the Russian occupation authority in Crimea, Oleg Kryuchkov, said 11 waggons of grain had arrived in Crimea from Melitopol, a city in Zaporizhzhia.
He spoke to Russian state news agency RIA, which also said grain was being transported from the occupied Kherson region.

The BBC has approached Russian authorities for comment.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov discussed the grain problem with his Turkish counterpart Mevlut Cavusoglu in Ankara on Wednesday, but there was no breakthrough.
Mr Lavrov denied that Russia was obstructing Ukraine's wheat exports, saying the onus was on Ukraine to de-mine the waters off Odesa and other ports.
A Ukrainian foreign ministry spokesman said Ukraine could not de-mine the coast because Russia would "use grain corridors to attack southern Ukraine".
Russia also blames Western sanctions for the food crisis. The West however says Russia has "weaponised" food supplies.
Turkey is trying to broker a deal to create safe maritime corridors.

Russia is sending grain from Ukraine overseas, Russian-appointed officials in occupied southern Ukraine say.
The claim - which the BBC has not been able to verify - comes as Ukrainian officials accuse Russia of stealing about 600,000 tonnes of its grain and exporting some of it.
Russia denies it is stealing grain.
Accessing Ukraine's stockpiled grain has become urgent internationally: millions of tonnes are exported annually to Africa and the Middle East.
But it cannot be shipped now because Russia's navy is blockading Ukraine's Black Sea ports.
And Russia says Ukraine must de-mine waters off the Black Sea Coast for corridors to export the grain to become operational.
Reply
RainbowUnicorn Offline
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61727651

WTO boss warns of global food crisis
  • Ukraine is a major global exporter of wheat, contributing to 9% of the global market. It also accounts for a massive 42% chunk of the global sunflower oil market, and 16% of the world's maize.

Because of gridlock due to a Russian blockade of Black Sea ports, and Russian and Ukrainian mines along the coast, between 20 and 25 million tonnes of wheat are stuck in Ukraine while global grain prices spiral upwards.

  • wheat prices had risen 59% compared with last year, sunflower oil was up 30%, while maize was 23% higher.

It is some countries in the Middle East and Africa in particular that will feel the threat of shortages.
  • Libya and Eritrea get more than 40% of their wheat from Ukraine, and Lebanon more than 60%.
  • 35 countries in Africa import food from that Black Sea region, while 22 import fertilizer.
  • Ukraine typically produces enough to feed 400 million
Reply
RainbowUnicorn Offline
i think the Orcs are deliberately targeting shopping malls and food so they can loot the food and supply's

it looks like a pattern

when ever they get within range they shell or bomb the grocery stores so civilians run away and wont go back
so the Orcs can then go and take the food and supply's for themselves.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)