Cosmic Consciousness: Everything from matter is just making a baseless assumption

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Ostronomos Offline
Yazata Wrote:
(Jan 8, 2021 05:22 PM)Ostronomos Wrote: Let us entertain the idea that everything came from matter for a moment.

OK. (Lots of open questions there, but I'll ignore them for the sake of argument.)

Quote:Then the question becomes, how did matter give rise to consciousness?

The question that I would ask at that point is what does the word 'consciousness' mean?

That's the rock that the philosophy of mind ship always seems to strike. When David Chalmers proclaims what he insists is the "hard problem", it only seems hard to him because he's conceptualizing 'consciousness' in such a way that it seems to him to be incompatible with physicalism.

My first reply to Chalmers would be that we won't know whether or not the problem is really "hard" (in his metaphysical sense) until we have a lot better idea of what it is that we are attempting to explain and make consistent with the rest of our worldview. 

Yazata,

Recall my definition of consciousness that I proposed while high that says that consciousness is a function that tries to combine the opposites of internal and external reality thus neutralizing the flaws in perception. Hence, in order to have functioning consciousness we must have a perception of both internal and external reality. I read recently on sciforums in the "Inter-Mind" thread that Quantum tunneling is the connection between the physical mind and the conscious mind. Hence, consciousness is ultimately the result of Quantum and not Classical processes.




Quote:
Quote:What are the properties inherent within matter that allow for a being to compose Beethoven's symphonies, discover a new law of Physics, create life?

Well, my own inclination is to try to conceptualize those kind of things functionally. Consciousness and intelligence (as I conceive of them) aren't ontological substances, they are activities performed by (material presumably) substances. That's seemingly consistent with all the brain physiology stuff, where awareness and intelligence aren't necessarily present whenever brain substance is present, but are only present when the brain substance is behaving as it should.

The brain is an ontological substance, which leads us to ask how a perfectly functioning consciousness could be the result of matter. It would seem that would require some weird unexplainable ineffable attribute if we were to try to trace the origins of our understanding behind the laws of the universe, Beethoven's symphonies, our metaphysical experiences and our logical understanding of it and so on and so forth. So my question to you is, what is consciousness ultimately the result of if not matter or more specifically the brain? Telic feedback?


Quote:I don't conceive of it in terms of 'properties'. Perhaps the only property of matter that's necessary is causation. So I tend to reduce consciousness to causation. Kick a small rock and it moves, stimulus and response. I suspect that all the rest is elaboration on that theme. (I can already sense CC seething at that idea.) The question (as I conceive of it) is how causation compounds itself into more complex behaviors. Ultimately ending up in organisms with nervous systems of billions of cells that are able to use language to communicate, form ideas of things like abstractions, and are able to intuit (some of) their own inner states. I don't think that we are anywhere near close to explaining that. We can't even really describe it at this point.

So I can't really prove that it's built up out of simpler causal components. It's more of a heuristic hypothesis, my working assumption at this point.


Attributing consciousness to causation is atheistic ignorance. The triumphant success of atheistic ignorance on sciforums would have allowed them to spin any web on God that would have so chosen. Ultimately consciousness comes from the cosmos. As single celled organisms combine to create more complex organisms that is not what is responsible for causation. Ultimately consciousness is not the result of the brain. But telic feedback and Quantum Physics.
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