(Aug 19, 2025 11:01 PM)confused2 Wrote: Just to finish my point .. if people are born and live in a region (or whatever) known as Palestine then I'm surprised to find apparently intelligent people claiming those people aren't Palestinian.
The woman goes on to point out that, 2000 years ago, the people now claiming ownership of large parts of Palestine were driven out by forces beyond their control. Sixty years ago (and subsequently) the people on the land were driven out by forces beyond their control - Palestine again seized by overwhelming force of arms. To argue about whether it was seized back or just plain seized is irrelevant in the current situation. To frame a military defeat as a religious battle between good and evil just plays into the hands of the religious nutters on both sides. Of course both sides want the moral high ground - in reality either would have done the same (or worse) to the other so there is no moral high ground.
(Aug 19, 2025 11:42 PM)C C Wrote: Kind of akin to the situation of indigenous tribes in North America. Many of them didn't have formally established domains and firmly set boundaries, as Europeans would define or recognize them. As well as little or no concept of private property. So it becomes a case of the victors evaluating the situation according to their own standards and system, rather than that of the conquered. And as the platitude goes, the victors also get to write the history.
Again, basic history (as if anyone will bother to finally learn anything).
The history of the State of Palestine describes the creation and evolution of the country Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. During the British mandate period, numerous territorial and constitutional models were proposed for Palestine, none of them winning the agreement of all parties. In 1947, the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was voted for. The leaders of the Jewish Agency for Palestine accepted parts of the plan, while Arab leaders refused it. This triggered the 1947–1949 Palestine war and led, in 1948, to the establishment of the state of Israel on a part of Mandate Palestine as the Mandate came to an end.
The Gaza Strip came under Egyptian occupation, and the West Bank was ruled by Jordan, before both territories were occupied by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War. Since then there have been proposals to establish a Palestinian state. In 1969, for example, the PLO proposed the establishment of a binational state over the whole of the former British Mandate territory. This proposal was rejected by Israel, as it would have amounted to the disbanding of the state of Israel. The basis of the current proposals is for a two-state solution on either a portion of or the entirety of the Palestinian territories—the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, which have been occupied by Israel since 1967.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of..._Palestine
Hence never an existing state of Palestine. Every offer of a state was rejected... except the one that would disband the state of Israel.
Because of its location, it has historically been seen as a crossroads for religion, culture, commerce, and politics. In the Bronze Age, the Canaanites established city-states influenced by surrounding civilizations, among them Egypt, which ruled the area in the Late Bronze Age. During the Iron Age, two related Israelite kingdoms, Israel and Judah, controlled much of Palestine, while the Philistines occupied its southern coast. The Assyrians conquered the region in the 8th century BCE, then the Babylonians c. 601 BCE, followed by the Persian Achaemenid Empire that conquered the Babylonian Empire in 539 BCE. Alexander the Great conquered the Persian Empire in the late 330s BCE, beginning Hellenization.
In the late 2nd-century BCE Maccabean Revolt, the Jewish Hasmonean Kingdom conquered most of Palestine; the kingdom subsequently became a vassal of Rome, which annexed it in 63 BCE. Roman Judea was troubled by Jewish revolts in 66 CE, so Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the Second Jewish Temple in 70 CE. In the 4th century, as the Roman Empire adopted Christianity, Palestine became a center for the religion, attracting pilgrims, monks and scholars. Following Muslim conquest of the Levant in 636–641, ruling dynasties succeeded each other: the Rashiduns; Umayyads, Abbasids; the semi-independent Tulunids and Ikhshidids; Fatimids; and the Seljuks. In 1099, the First Crusade resulted in Crusaders establishing of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, which was reconquered by the Ayyubid Sultanate in 1187. Following the invasion of the Mongol Empire in the late 1250s, the Egyptian Mamluks reunified Palestine under its control, before the region was conquered by the Ottoman Empire in 1516, being ruled as Ottoman Syria until the 20th century largely without dispute.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#...ttoman_era
See any mention of Palestinians? There were Philistines, from which the word Palestine is derived, but Philistines were Greek. Aside from very early city-states, the earliest ruling kingdoms where Jewish. The region was conquered several times then another Jewish kingdom ruled, telling us Jews inhabited the area the entire time.
Though Palestinian elites, in particular urban notable families who worked within the Ottoman bureaucracy, generally retained their loyalty to the Ottomans, they also played a significant role proportionately in the rise of Arab nationalism, and the Pan-Arabic movements that arose in response to both the emergence of the Young Turks movement and the subsequent weakening of Ottoman power in World War I.[38] The onset of the Zionist movement, which sought to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine, also exercised a strong influence on Palestinian national consciousness. Abdul Hamid, the last sultan of the Ottoman Empire, opposed the Zionist movement's efforts in Palestine. The end of the Ottoman Empire's rule in Palestine coincided with the conclusion of World War I. The failure of Emir Faisal to establish a Greater Syria in the face of French and British colonial claims to the area, also shaped Palestinian elites' efforts to secure local autonomy.[39] In the aftermath of the war Palestine came under British control with the implementation of the British Mandate for Palestine in 1920.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#...ationalism
Antisemitism is the driving force behind Palestinian nationalism.
Genetic studies indicate a genetic affinity between Palestinians and other Arab and Semitic groups in the Middle East and North Africa.... Genetic studies have also shown a genetic relationship between Palestinians and Jews. A 2023 study, which looked at the whole genomes of modern-day ethnic groups around the world, found that the Palestinian samples clustered in the "Middle Eastern genomic group". This group included samples from populations such as Samaritans, Bedouins, Jordanians, Iraqi Jews and Yemenite Jews.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians#Genetics
Even genetically, Palestinians are not a unique ethnicity, and actually include several Jewish ancestry... more evidence of historical Jewish inhabitation.
Legal historian Assaf Likhovski states that the prevailing view is that Palestinian identity originated in the early decades of the 20th century,[46] when an embryonic desire among Palestinians for self-government in the face of generalized fears that Zionism would lead to a Jewish state and the dispossession of the Arab majority crystallised among most editors, Christian and Muslim, of local newspapers.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinia...t_identity
Again, Palestinian nationalism originated in antisemitism.
After the British Mandate of Palestine, and the establishment of the State of Israel, the West Bank was controlled by Jordan and Gaza by Egypt. So Palestinians have always been Jewish, Jordanian, Egyptian, and Arab. By genetics and rule. After the Arab countries attacked Israel, it took the West Bank and Gaza as buffer zones. And now Egypt and Jordan do not allow Palestinians to leave.
Palestinians were never "indigenous tribes." The indigenous are the ones with the longest historical inhabitation and oldest historical rule of the region.
So Palestinians were nothing like indigenous tribes of North America. That just plays into the big lie.
Sad that so many seemingly intelligent, or at least half-competent, people ignore basic history to justify antisemitic lies.
Aug 19, 2025 05:46 PM
(This post was last modified: Aug 19, 2025 05:48 PM by Syne.)
