Russian Ukraine Invasion

[Syne]

You've had years now to help Ukraine with troops. Pretending you need an excuse now is pointless.

[stryder]

You've had years now to help Ukraine with troops. Pretending you need an excuse now is pointless.

From the last Two World Wars the people clung onto is the notion that diplomacy can be triumphant and stop escalation. The problem is that in both of those wars, they initially had the exact same rational but in both cases diplomacy failed and it spread to a wider theatre with territory being taken and inevitably force being necessary to stave further problems.

That is one of the main reasons why "Economic" pressure through sanctions was attempted, however that only works when it's doubled down on and backed up.

Unfortunately having people with differences of opinion and not wanting to use similar methods (Trump not wanting to copy Biden etc) has weakened any strength of resolve for that to be a solution. Mixed signals is what makes it as a strategy look weak.

Trump will turn around and say about Europe buying oil from Russia. He could of pushed Orban more, but Orban sucks up to Trump, so he sees him as a devote ally in Europe so let him and Hungary off for 1 year for buying Russian oil. Next thing you know, Orban jumps on a plane like he's blessed by the pope to go make more deals with Putin.

In other words the European country that is the most prolific, the one that Trump refers to is the one that his words encouraged to do so.

The whole state of affairs is a f*king debacle.

As for why Europe doesn't do more.... Well if you haven't noticed a majority of the countries are NATO, however they can't make any impulsive decisions as it would either put them at threat of being excluded from NATO or from putting NATO at risk. Unfortunately the US carries a lot of weight in NATO decisions which means Europe can't just go do what it needs to do without sending a message to Trump and kissing his pinky ring.

So again it's more down to the US than anyone.

[geordief]

You've had years now to help Ukraine with troops. Pretending you need an excuse now is pointless.

From the last Two World Wars the people clung onto is the notion that diplomacy can be triumphant and stop escalation.  The problem is that in both of those wars, they initially had the exact same rational but in both cases diplomacy failed and it spread to a wider theatre with territory being taken and inevitably force being necessary to stave further problems.

That is one of the main reasons why "Economic" pressure through sanctions was attempted, however that only works when it's doubled down on and backed up.

Unfortunately having people with differences of opinion and not wanting to use similar methods (Trump not wanting to copy Biden etc) has weakened any strength of resolve for that to be a solution.  Mixed signals is what makes it as a strategy look weak.

Trump will turn around and say about Europe buying oil from Russia.  He could of pushed Orban more, but Orban sucks up to Trump, so he sees him as a devote ally in Europe so let him and Hungary off for 1 year for buying Russian oil. Next thing you know, Orban jumps on a plane like he's blessed by the pope to go make more deals with Putin.

In other words the European country that is the most prolific, the one that Trump refers to is the one that his words encouraged to do so.

The whole state of affairs is a f*king debacle.

As for why Europe doesn't do more.... Well if you haven't noticed a majority of the countries are NATO, however they can't make any impulsive decisions as it would either put them at threat of being excluded from NATO or from putting NATO at risk.  Unfortunately the US carries a lot of weight in NATO decisions which means Europe can't just go do what it needs to do without sending a message to Trump and kissing his pinky ring.

So again it's more down to the US than anyone.

Trump wants to leave Nato as evidenced by his threat to do so based on EUs putting manners on X.
When push comes to shove we have to respect Ukraine's decision and accept that it is fighting our corner(indirectly) against the twin "evil empires" of US and Russia.

It is Stalin and Hitler vs Poland  on repeat  but hopefully Europe has more capability this time and the cop on to see what is happening.