Hospice tales of the paranormal

(Sep 26, 2016 07:18 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote:

(Sep 26, 2016 06:49 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: Right..so again I'm psychotic much as everyone who finds a pearl is. What a cramped little world you must live in, where everyone who experiences something you haven't is automatically invalidated as a sane human being.

Take a deep breath, you are becoming very agitated. Remember.....casual.  You might be interested in introspection.

Amazing how the continued use of an awkward analogy can ruin one's argument. If you're not doing it on purpose then I am worried for you.

It's clear you're worried alright. The OP did that much. But you're not worried about me. You're worried about your worldview.

I was at the bedside of one who passed also, as support for the wife.

It had been a long vigil, in a semi-darkened room listening to the labored breathing.

Afterwards, the wife claims she saw an aura surrounding me.

For my part, I was watching the patient very closely and all that I observed was a small wet area form as the last breath was drawn and the body sphincters relaxed releasing a very small amount of urine from the somewhat dehydrated patient.

Two persons in the same place at the same time and two very different perspectives and expectations. The wife had a religious upbringing while I am a student of biology.

I do not doubt that the experiences people have are completely real to them, framed by their beliefs, expectations and numerous other variables at play in individual situations.

(Sep 26, 2016 07:22 PM)scheherazade Wrote: I was at the bedside of one who passed also, as support for the wife.

It had been a long vigil, in a semi-darkened room listening to the labored breathing.

Afterwards, the wife claims she saw an aura surrounding me.

For my part, I was watching the patient very closely and all that I observed was a small wet area form as the last breath was drawn and the body sphincters relaxed releasing a very small amount of urine from the somewhat dehydrated patient.  

Two persons in the same place at the same time and two very different perspectives and expectations. The wife had a religious upbringing while I am a student of biology.

I do not doubt that the experiences people have are completely real to them, framed by their beliefs, expectations and numerous other variables at play in individual situations.

No less that your experiences are framed by your beliefs. There's evidence that even skeptics see only what they expect to see. Some people just block out amazing events. Or else rationalize them away as tricks of perception.

(Sep 26, 2016 07:22 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:

(Sep 26, 2016 07:18 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote:

(Sep 26, 2016 06:49 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: Right..so again I'm psychotic much as everyone who finds a pearl is. What a cramped little world you must live in, where everyone who experiences something you haven't is automatically invalidated as a sane human being.

Take a deep breath, you are becoming very agitated. Remember.....casual.  You might be interested in introspection.

Amazing how the continued use of an awkward analogy can ruin one's argument. If you're not doing it on purpose then I am worried for you.

It's clear you're worried alright. The OP did that much. But you're not worried about me. You're worried about your worldview.

If I've said it once then I've said it a thousand times, prove it to me and I'll change my mind instantly. You don't understand, it's ok to believe whatever you want, just don't preach to me that it's fact without some real hard evidence. Until you've proven the primary belief, I'd advise not adding any more facts(?) to it. So I await your proof of the afterlife....convince me.

"William Peters was working as a volunteer in a hospice when he had a strange encounter with a dying man that changed his life.

The man’s name was Ron, and he was a former Merchant Marine who was afflicted with stomach cancer. Peters says he would spend up to three hours a day at Ron’s bedside, talking to and reading adventure stories to him because few family or friends visited.

When Peters plopped by Ron’s beside around lunch one day, the frail man was semi-conscious. Peters read passages from Jack London’s “Call of the Wild” as the frail man struggled to hang on. What happened next, Peters says, was inexplicable.

Peters says he felt a force jerk his spirit upward, out of his body. He floated above Ron’s bedside, looking down at the dying man. Then he glanced next to him to discover Ron floating alongside him, looking at the same scene below.
“He looked at me and he gave me this happy, contented look as if he was telling me, ‘Check this out. Here we are,’ ’’ Peters says.

Peters says he then felt his spirit drop into his body again. The experience was over in a flash. Ron died soon afterward, but Peters’ questions about that day lingered. He didn’t know what to call that moment but he eventually learned that it wasn’t unique. Peters had a “shared-death experience.”

Most of us have heard of near-death experiences. The stories of people who died and returned to life with tales of floating through a tunnel to a distant light have become a part of popular culture. Yet there is another category of near-death experiences that are, in some ways, even more puzzling.

Stories about shared-death experiences have been circulating since the late 19th century, say those who study the phenomenon. The twist in shared-death stories is that it’s not just the people at the edge of death that get a glimpse of the afterlife. Those near them, either physically or emotionally, also experience the sensations of dying.

These shared-death accounts come from assorted sources: soldiers watching comrades die on the battlefield, hospice nurses, people holding death vigils at the bedside of their loved ones. All tell similar stories with the same message: People don’t die alone. Some somehow find a way to share their passage to the other side."---

Quote:http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/12/us/shared-death/

(Sep 26, 2016 07:31 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:

(Sep 26, 2016 07:22 PM)scheherazade Wrote: I was at the bedside of one who passed also, as support for the wife.

It had been a long vigil, in a semi-darkened room listening to the labored breathing.

Afterwards, the wife claims she saw an aura surrounding me.

For my part, I was watching the patient very closely and all that I observed was a small wet area form as the last breath was drawn and the body sphincters relaxed releasing a very small amount of urine from the somewhat dehydrated patient.  

Two persons in the same place at the same time and two very different perspectives and expectations. The wife had a religious upbringing while I am a student of biology.

I do not doubt that the experiences people have are completely real to them, framed by their beliefs, expectations and numerous other variables at play in individual situations.

No less that your experiences are framed by your beliefs. There's evidence that even skeptics see only what they expect to see. Some people just block out amazing events. Or else rationalize them away as tricks of perception.

Thank you for making my point.

It would be rather unlikely for me to perceive an aura around myself so I can neither confirm or deny what the the wife saw even though I was in the same room.

(Sep 26, 2016 07:33 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote:

(Sep 26, 2016 07:22 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:

(Sep 26, 2016 07:18 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote:

(Sep 26, 2016 06:49 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: Right..so again I'm psychotic much as everyone who finds a pearl is. What a cramped little world you must live in, where everyone who experiences something you haven't is automatically invalidated as a sane human being.

Take a deep breath, you are becoming very agitated. Remember.....casual.  You might be interested in introspection.

Amazing how the continued use of an awkward analogy can ruin one's argument. If you're not doing it on purpose then I am worried for you.

It's clear you're worried alright. The OP did that much. But you're not worried about me. You're worried about your worldview.

If I've said it once then I've said it a thousand times, prove it to me and I'll change my mind instantly. You don't understand, it's ok to believe whatever you want, just don't preach to me that it's fact without some real hard evidence. Until you've proven the primary belief, I'd advise not adding any more facts(?) to it. So I await your proof of the afterlife....convince me.

As a rule I don't try to convince anyone that's already made up their mind that something doesn't happen. It's a waste of time and only makes that person hostile and defensive. They'll find the truth in their own time.

I agree with Zinjanthropos and scheherazade. Especially surrounding times of grief, people's beliefs and expectations can easily color their perceptions while emotionally compromised.

MR seems oblivious to the fact that his argument is the exact same made to support religion. Would he accept a Christian's demand that their "pearls" exist, even when he has never seen one? If not, then it is hypocritical, at best, to demean others for not believing yours sight unseen.

Let's make some observations...

Shared features of NDE's: death (imminent), emotions, belief, spirit presence, time (for NDE to occur) and the actual experience itself seems to have a limited number of ways to manifest itself (i.e. out of body float, auras, etc.). Are there more?

Not sure whether time is actually a feature. Does it make sense to have an NDE when you actually die and are not coming back to tell us about it?

(Sep 26, 2016 07:38 PM)scheherazade Wrote: It would be rather unlikely for me to perceive an aura around myself so I can neither confirm or deny what the the wife saw even though I was in the same room.

My camera creates auras at times but that can be explained. So would the ill health, mental or physical, of the person experiencing the NDE be a common feature also?

Quote:MR seems oblivious to the fact that his argument is the exact same made to support religion. Would he accept a Christian's demand that their "pearls" exist, even when he has never seen one? If not, then it is hypocritical, at best, to demean others for not believing yours sight unseen.

How many people see God or Jesus walking around tallking to them? I have yet to hear of such accounts. Which pretty much confirms the fact that even if you believe something strongly, which may not even be the case with hospice events, it doesn't entail that you're going to hallucinate it.