Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum

(Oct 6, 2020 07:57 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]“I think that modern physics has definitely decided in favor of Plato. In fact the smallest units of matter are not physical objects in the ordinary sense; they are forms, ideas which can be expressed unambiguously only in mathematical language.”
― Werner Heisenberg

Material objects were always outer appearances (even particles when detected or illustrated), which was contradictory for a type of existence that was supposed to be independent of perception/sensations.

Replacing exhibited bodies and events with technical and formulaic description does enable manipulation in physics, but is even more artificial as an additional representational level (it's a system of rational objects abstracted from phenomena via reasoning and experiment). Thus, not how any supposed ontological "stuff" would exist in itself, either. Description and symbolic thinking also have to be manifested as image, sound, tactile sensation, etc to be useful or acknowledged as be-ings.

Any proposed "invisible" manner of existence and action suffers from a verification impediment. Such perpetual nothingness is equivalent to a hidden supernatural realm, and the non-zombie consciousness that illuminates it is not even a recognized or measurable attribute of matter in physics.

Experiential materialization (consciousness) is purely a magical add-on in other sciences (brute-emergent dualism) and there's controversy in even claiming that the manifestations are the inner states of the conceptual or ideational versions of matter and processes. Alternatively, tissue and bodies as "outer appearances" are manifestations at the outset -- they circularly require the very thing that they are proposed to explain, and thus it becomes redundant to claim that they have inner states which are phenomenal.

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