Sweden captured international attention for its decision to buck the trend on mandated shut-ins.
Quote:The results are now in as Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale.
Not only have thousands more people died than in neighboring countries that imposed lockdowns, but Sweden’s economy has fared little better. “They literally gained nothing,” said Jacob F. Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “It’s a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains.”
CDC seem to think masks work but they are as much involved in politics as anyone else.
The example cited (by CDC) suggests we could all go back to work if only..
Example:
Two hair stylists testing positive wear face masks and deal with 139 clients and there is no transmission.
CDC Wrote:On May 12, 2020 (day 0), a hair stylist at salon A in Springfield, Missouri (stylist A), developed respiratory symptoms and continued working with clients until day 8, when the stylist received a positive test result for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). A second hair stylist (stylist B), who had been exposed to stylist A, developed respiratory symptoms on May 15, 2020 (day 3), and worked with clients at salon A until day 8 before seeking testing for SARS-CoV-2, which returned a positive result on day 10. A total of 139 clients were directly serviced by stylists A and B from the time they developed symptoms until they took leave from work. Stylists A and B and the 139 clients followed the City of Springfield ordinance* and salon A policy recommending the use of face coverings (i.e., surgical masks, N95 respirators,† or cloth face coverings) for both stylists and clients during their interactions. Other stylists at salon A who worked closely with stylists A and B were identified, quarantined, and monitored daily for 14 days after their last exposure to stylists A or B. None of these stylists reported COVID-19 symptoms. After stylist B received a positive test result on day 10, salon A closed for 3 days to disinfect frequently touched and contaminated areas. After public health contact tracings and 2 weeks of follow-up, no COVID-19 symptoms were identified among the 139 exposed clients or their secondary contacts.
The problem with masks is that people wear them for a bit and in that time it will reflect any moisture they exhale back onto the face and accumulate in the mask itself. This in turn creates an area of homoeostasis for microbials to thrive. This increases the risk from contact transmission through adjusting the mask or discarding it, this of course assumes that a person is symptomatic. (I have first hand seen those discarded masks littering the town, laying on the pavements etc. There has been no direct plan to treat such masks the equivalent of hospital waste, there should really of been biohazard bins for collecting such things etc.)
Masks can reduce droplet transmissions over distance, however the type of mask defines whether it's capable of reducing particles. (Particles are obviously smaller, and its likely suggested that for a person to gain transmission from particles they will likely require being in an environment rich with them for a duration.)
It's therefore suggested that masks can reduce outbound transmission however it's dependent on the quality of mask to identify if it can reduce inbound. (Is it a refined surgical mask with fine materials/multiple layers etc has it been treated chemically or with a salt solution etc)
Should people wear masks out and about? Well one of the real problems is dealing with people that apparently don't know if they've been subjected to the virus. It's suggested to take about 5 days to display symptoms so if a persons been out and about around people, it makes sense for them to wear a mask to try to reduce the chances of transmission if they have caught it.
As for people that have been locking themselves at home and keeping themselves away from everyone, they shouldn't technically need to wear a mask (but at at their own risk), however should they venture out into public they should quarantine themselves for up to two weeks after before they go out unmasked again.
This leads to the final point though, some people are liers or are just inconsiderate jerks. Claiming you don't have it but suffering symptoms etc from literally purposely being stupid is something that isn't easily identifiable, which is why people blanket wearing masks at least attempts to deal with the minorities callous acts.
(Oct 19, 2020 09:54 PM)Leigha Wrote: I believe Dr Fauci was the one who at the onset of Covid, suggested that mask wearing wasn't all that helpful in preventing the spread of the virus. Trump sort of latched onto that in the beginning because Fauci was the doc in charge then, yes? Now, months later...Fauci does a 180, and Trump is left holding the bag. I'm not a Trump lover, but that is pretty much what happened, and Fauci should be the one who is blamed for the early misinformation. (although, new reports have come out recently that masks aren't all that helpful for spread prevention)
That was back in March when little research had been done yet on the masks and the virus. It's now October and the fact is now well-established that masks prevent the spread of the virus. See CDC recommendation below that came out in July. That Trump is still claiming otherwise is dishonest and irresponsible and only encourages more infections. This disinformation is all on him and his superspreader rally events.
EID Journal
Volume 26, Number 10—October 2020
...
In 2015, we conducted a randomized controlled trial to compare the efficacy of cloth masks with that of medical masks and controls (standard practice) among healthcare workers in Vietnam (4). Rates of infection were consistently higher among those in the cloth mask group than in the medical mask and control groups. This finding suggests that risk for infection was higher for those wearing cloth masks.
...
If respirators are unavailable, healthcare workers could use a medical mask but may be at increased risk if they do so (2).
...
During a pandemic, cloth masks may be the only option available; however, they should be used as a last resort when medical masks and respirators are not available (3). Cloth mask use should not be mandated for healthcare workers, but some may choose to use them if there are no alternatives (30). Protection is affected by proper mask use as well as by selection of fabric and design of the masks for water resistance, filtration, and fit. Current evidence suggests that multilayered masks with water-resistant fabric, high number of threads, and finer weave may be more protective (3,10). https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article
And from that CDC cited 2015 study:
Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577
IOW, cloth mask, especially homemade or ill-fitting, efficacy is by no means established. The CDC guidance is basically a "maybe it's better than nothing" shot in the dark. So regardless of what Fauci says now, there is still no conclusive science on the wide variety of cloth masks in use being effective.
(Oct 19, 2020 10:39 PM)confused2 Wrote: We live in a world where lies are are true and truth is a lie.
From a rabidly pro-Trump site:
5 Charts That Show Sweden’s Strategy Worked. The Lockdowns Failed
Quote:The CDC guidance is basically a "maybe it's better than nothing" shot in the dark. So regardless of what Fauci says now, there is still no conclusive science on the wide variety of cloth masks in use being effective.
Just the cloth masks though. Doesn't apply to all masks in general. The studies are clear on this. Masks are effective in reducing the risk of transmission of covid.
Quote:The CDC guidance is basically a "maybe it's better than nothing" shot in the dark. So regardless of what Fauci says now, there is still no conclusive science on the wide variety of cloth masks in use being effective.
Just the cloth masks though. Doesn't apply to all masks in general. The studies are clear on this. Masks are effective in reducing the risk of transmission of covid.
No, they're not. Studies show that even medical masks are far inferior to respirators, and I just cited ones showing that cloth masks (which are the vast majority of what the public has access to) can increased the risk of infection.
"Face masks are a simple way to help decrease coronavirus transmission and save lives. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, wearing a face mask in public places has been shown to reduce the spread of COVID-19, because those who are pre-symptomatic can spread the virus before showing symptoms. However, some masks are more effective than others.
Adrian Cotton, MD, chief of medical operations at Loma Linda University Health, breaks down how different types of masks protect you as well as how they are meant to be used.
Fabric/cloth masks:
Fabric or cloth masks trap droplets that are released when the person wearing the mask sneezes, coughs or talks. They reduce the spread of viruses, are easy to purchase or make, and can be washed and worn again. It’s also important for the wearer to avoid touching their masks, and if they do, to sanitize or wash their hands after. Additionally, if a cloth or fabric mask becomes wet or dirty, it’s important to switch to a clean one. These masks should not be shared.
Surgical masks:
Surgical masks — also called medical masks — are loose-fitting and disposable. They protect the nose and mouth from coming into contact with droplets that could carry germs. They’re made to protect you from sprays or splashes that could enter the nose or mouth. These masks are also able to filter out large particles in the air, and can make sure droplets from the wearer aren’t being spread. These masks are single-use only.
N95 masks:
N95 masks provide a higher degree of protection than a surgical mask or cloth mask because they can filter out both large and small particles when the wearer breathes. They’re called N95 masks because they’re designed to block 95% of particles or liquids that may come in contact with your face. However, these masks are not for general public use and should be reserved for healthcare workers and other medical first responders. They’re also incompatible with children or people with facial hair. Healthcare providers are fit tested for these masks, and like surgical masks, they’re intended to be single-use only, though researchers are examining effective ways to clean these masks.
Face masks with valves:
These masks may make it easier to breathe out, but as the wearer is doing so, they’re also exhaling their germs into the air around them. Increasingly more medical facilities around the country have banned the use of masks with valves. They do a good job protecting the wearer, but because of the one-way valves, they don’t offer much protection to the people around the wearer. If the wearer is contagious, either knowingly or unknowingly, they could still be spreading the virus to others around them. Since the main reason to wear a mask is to protect others, a simpler mask with a filter may be a better choice."
SyneOct 20, 2020 07:19 AM (This post was last modified: Oct 20, 2020 07:19 AM by Syne.)
(Oct 20, 2020 05:06 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: Fabric/cloth masks:
Fabric or cloth masks trap droplets that are released when the person wearing the mask sneezes, coughs or talks.
No, they don't. If anything, according to studies, they aerosolize larger droplets into smaller particles that can remain suspended in the air longer and travel further. At best, this is obsolete advice from before the CDC acknowledged Covid is likely airborne, through aerosolized particles.
Quote:It’s also important for the wearer to avoid touching their masks, and if they do, to sanitize or wash their hands after. Additionally, if a cloth or fabric mask becomes wet or dirty, it’s important to switch to a clean one.
Which nobody does, hence contributing to the greater risk of infection.
A link to one or more of these studies would increase the credibility factor of that claim.
Do you still need that in today's world? As I've jokingly said before, the sum of all knowledge ends up on 1st page of Google. If you don't go to page 2 or others then Page 1 is all that's important.
There's only one reason I like Trump....exposing the media for what it really is...untrustworthy. Because its something I thought was happening way before he was said to have lashed out, then it's probably why I lean towards him. When I hear about Trump all I can think of is that Today's News belongs in Ripley's Believe It or Not. I couldn't care less about what he actually stands for because, and I'm being realistic, there's no way for me to know what's reported is true. Its so bad that even if someone like Trump or Biden for that matter is telling the truth, I can't believe it. I guess i have to trust somebody, even if only a wee bit to tip the scale.
Sign of a country gone mad? Don't know. Canadian news/politicians not much different so it may be a global phenomena. Opposition parties today in Parliament here are reportedly going to pass a bill to investigate the ruling Liberal's past corruption. Since we have a Minority Gov't, a vote on this could bring down the gov't or the Libs may call an election before that happens. We'll see, should be fun. But first I have to trust the news on this. It's reported the Libs are furious.
A link to one or more of these studies would increase the credibility factor of that claim.
Like Zin said, a quick Google search would give you that, but I'll humor you.
Wearing a homemade single layer paper towel (SL-P) mask yielded a similar decrease in outward emission rate, although not as statistically significant as the medical-grade masks.
Surprisingly, wearing an unwashed single layer t-shirt (U-SL-T) mask while breathing yielded a significant increase in measured particle emission rates compared to no mask, increasing to a median of 0.61 particles/s. The rates for some participants (F1 and F4) exceeded 1 particle/s, representing a 384% increase from the median no-mask value. Wearing a double-layer cotton t-shirt (U-DL-T) mask had no statistically significant effect on the particle emission rate, with comparable median and range to that observed with no mask. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7
Surgical masks and N95 respirators are very popular and ubiquitous among millions of people worldwide as the PPE for COVID-19, but surgical masks are believed to be not preventing aerosol transmission
...
conventional surgical masks that were ineffective against aerosols https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7293495/
And even the CDC, as recently as Oct 5th, admits they don't know the efficacy of masks:
There are several critical questions that need to be answered to refine guidance for prevention of COVID-19, including
(Oct 20, 2020 04:52 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: There's only one reason I like Trump....exposing the media for what it really is...untrustworthy. Because its something I thought was happening way before he was said to have lashed out, then it's probably why I lean towards him. When I hear about Trump all I can think of is that Today's News belongs in Ripley's Believe It or Not. I couldn't care less about what he actually stands for because, and I'm being realistic, there's no way for me to know what's reported is true. Its so bad that even if someone like Trump or Biden for that matter is telling the truth, I can't believe it. I guess i have to trust somebody, even if only a wee bit to tip the scale.
Sign of a country gone mad? Don't know. Canadian news/politicians not much different so it may be a global phenomena. Opposition parties today in Parliament here are reportedly going to pass a bill to investigate the ruling Liberal's past corruption. Since we have a Minority Gov't, a vote on this could bring down the gov't or the Libs may call an election before that happens. We'll see, should be fun. But first I have to trust the news on this. It's reported the Libs are furious.
That's why it helps to see the policies enacted by each, that the biased media doesn't tend to report on. It's not the words but the actions that matter. Biden not only has made many racist gaffes (don't know how many until we stop calling them gaffes) but he also drafted the Clinton-era crime bill, that's responsible for increased incarceration of minorities. And that's about all he's accomplished in 47 years in politics. When he ran for president in 1988, he had to drop out after being caught plagiarizing speeches, work in law school, and lying about his academic record. Trump was created historically low minority unemployment (helping minorities more than Obama/Biden ever did) and brokered three peaces treaties in the Middle East (where Obama/Biden just emboldened terrorist Iran). Doesn't really matter what they stand for, or if they're a nice guy, as long as their policies do good.
Oct 19, 2020 10:39 PM
(This post was last modified: Oct 19, 2020 11:27 PM by confused2.
Edit Reason: Update
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