No ‘gay gene’ & no ‘straight gene’. Sexuality is just complex, study confirms

#1
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/the...y-confirms

EXCERPT: There is no single gene responsible for a person being gay or a lesbian. That’s the first thing you need to know about the largest genetic investigation of sexuality ever, which was published Thursday in Science. The study of nearly a half million people closes the door on the debate around the existence of a so-called “gay gene.”

In its stead, the report finds that human DNA cannot predict who is gay or heterosexual. Sexuality cannot be pinned down by biology, psychology or life experiences, this study and others show, because human sexual attraction is decided by all these factors. “This is not a first study exploring the genetics of same-sex behavior, but the previous studies were small and underpowered,” Andrea Ganna, the study’s co-author and genetics research fellow at the Broad Institute and Mass General Hospital, said in a press briefing on Wednesday. “Just to give you a sense of the scale of [our] data, this is approximately 100 times bigger than any previous study on this topic.”

The study shows that genes play a small and limited role in determining sexuality. Genetic heritability — all of the information stored in our genes and passed between generations — can only explain 8 to 25 percent of why people have same-sex relations, based on the study’s results.

Moreover, the researchers found that sexuality is polygenic — meaning hundreds or even thousands of genes make tiny contributions to the trait. That pattern is similar to other heritable (but complex) characteristics like height or a proclivity toward trying new things. [...] But polygenic traits can be strongly influenced by the environment, meaning there’s no clear winner in this “nature versus nurture” debate.

[...] Of course, ethical concerns arise ... People like Michael Bailey, a psychologist at Northwestern University ... warned against taking this new genetics study — or any research on sexual behavior — out of context. For instance, Bailey added, there is no evidence that things like conversion therapy work. “Obviously, there are environmental causes of sexual orientation. We knew that before this study.” said Bailey, citing the well-defined role that life experiences play in sexual development. “But that doesn’t mean we know how to manipulate sexual orientation mentally.” (MORE - details)

RELATED (scivillage): Sexual fluidity: Why it's disconcerting to those from the era of rigid identity
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#2
I don't know how much of my gayness was genetic or environmental, but I do know it wasn't chosen by me. It's as much an intrinsic part of who I am as my personality is.
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#3
So being gay can have environmental factors without inferring blame, but if mental disorders have environmental factors they must infer blame? O_o
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#4
(Aug 30, 2019 11:25 PM)Syne Wrote: So being gay can have environmental factors without inferring blame, but if mental disorders have environmental factors they must infer blame? O_o

Environmental factors being as deterministic as genetic factors, there is no blame in either sexual orientation or mental disorders if environmental factors influence them. Why would you think that?
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#5
(Aug 30, 2019 11:36 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:
(Aug 30, 2019 11:25 PM)Syne Wrote: So being gay can have environmental factors without inferring blame, but if mental disorders have environmental factors they must infer blame? O_o

Environmental factors being as deterministic as genetic factors, there is no blame in either sexual orientation or mental disorders if environmental factors influence them. Why would you think that?

You're the one who said it:
(Aug 29, 2019 03:13 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: Why don't you study some actual science on the subject instead of blaming mental illness on the patient themselves or their childhood raising?

You equated "childhood raising" or, what, lifestyle choices with "blaming". I didn't allude to anything of the sort, and even said otherwise:
(Aug 29, 2019 04:16 AM)Syne Wrote: As any credible reference will state, there are many causes of mental illness. Among them, trauma, brain damage, etc., none of which the patient can be blamed for.

You came up with that gem all by yourself. Maybe that's your biggest fear. Who knows.
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#6
Quote:You equated "childhood raising" or, what, lifestyle choices with "blaming". I didn't allude to anything of the sort, and even said otherwise:

That's because you originally asserted mental disorders were caused by behavior and environment.

Quote:Between epigenetics and neuroplasticity, there's little reason to believe peculiarities in the brain are driven by anything but behavior and environment.


Behavior, as in the actions that humans choose to do. That's the blame game you snuck in there, as if allowing yourself the luxury of chalking up mental disorders to some character flaw or personal fault. We know that's your basic interest here, to moralize these traits into weaknesses like the hateful moralizing prig you are. Fortunately all the evidence shows otherwise. There is simply noone to blame for one's sexual orientation or mental illness.
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#7
(Aug 31, 2019 01:52 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:
Quote:You equated "childhood raising" or, what, lifestyle choices with "blaming". I didn't allude to anything of the sort, and even said otherwise:

That's because you originally asserted mental disorders were caused by behavior and environment.
Which you then associated with blame, all on your own.

Quote:
Quote:Between epigenetics and neuroplasticity, there's little reason to believe peculiarities in the brain are driven by anything but behavior and environment.


Behavior, as in the actions that humans choose to do. That's the blame game you snuck in there, as if allowing yourself the luxury of chalking up mental disorders to some character flaw or personal fault. We know that's your basic interest here, to moralize these traits into weaknesses like the hateful moralizing prig you are. Fortunately all the evidence shows otherwise. There is simply noone to blame for one's sexual orientation or mental illness.

No, that's your own straw man/projection. Just because you may believe that all behavior is a choice does not make it so. Humans have many behaviors that are due to past traumas, evolutionary psychology, etc...none of which is a conscious choice. So either you're the one who believes that all behavior is blameworthy, or you're afraid of what behaviors you might actually be culpable for.

There is often someone to blame, but it is also often not the individual himself. People don't choose to be abused, exposed to contaminants, etc., and people are not to blame for these happening to them.


And again, MR is the one resorting to name-calling. He's the hateful prick he projects others to be, and he justifies his own hatred with that exact projection. And then morons who don't pay attention validate and perpetuate his hatred, by buying into his projection.
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#8
(Aug 31, 2019 03:01 AM)Syne Wrote:
(Aug 31, 2019 01:52 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:
Quote:You equated "childhood raising" or, what, lifestyle choices with "blaming". I didn't allude to anything of the sort, and even said otherwise:

That's because you originally asserted mental disorders were caused by behavior and environment.
Which you then associated with blame, all on your own.

Quote:
Quote:Between epigenetics and neuroplasticity, there's little reason to believe peculiarities in the brain are driven by anything but behavior and environment.


Behavior, as in the actions that humans choose to do. That's the blame game you snuck in there, as if allowing yourself the luxury of chalking up mental disorders to some character flaw or personal fault. We know that's your basic interest here, to moralize these traits into weaknesses like the hateful moralizing prig you are. Fortunately all the evidence shows otherwise. There is simply noone to blame for one's sexual orientation or mental illness.

No, that's your own straw man/projection. Just because you may believe that all behavior is a choice does not make it so. Humans have many behaviors that are due to past traumas, evolutionary psychology, etc...none of which is a conscious choice. So either you're the one who believes that all behavior is blameworthy, or you're afraid of what behaviors you might actually be culpable for.

There is often someone to blame, but it is also often not the individual himself. People don't choose to be abused, exposed to contaminants, etc., and people are not to blame for these happening to them.


And again, MR is the one resorting to name-calling. He's the hateful prick he projects others to be, and he justifies his own hatred with that exact projection. And then morons who don't pay attention validate and perpetuate his hatred, by buying into his projection.

It didn't matter that some behavior is not chosen for you to assert it as a cause for mental illness. All that mattered was leaving the door open to calling someone with a mental disorder weak or foolish or selfish or undisciplined for you to be happy. And that's what I referred to. Lifestyle or childhood raising. But like I said, there's no truth to it. It's all determined for us, long before we have the choice to make any difference.
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#9
(Aug 31, 2019 03:13 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:
(Aug 31, 2019 03:01 AM)Syne Wrote: No, that's your own straw man/projection. Just because you may believe that all behavior is a choice does not make it so. Humans have many behaviors that are due to past traumas, evolutionary psychology, etc...none of which is a conscious choice. So either you're the one who believes that all behavior is blameworthy, or you're afraid of what behaviors you might actually be culpable for.

There is often someone to blame, but it is also often not the individual himself. People don't choose to be abused, exposed to contaminants, etc., and people are not to blame for these happening to them.


And again, MR is the one resorting to name-calling. He's the hateful prick he projects others to be, and he justifies his own hatred with that exact projection. And then morons who don't pay attention validate and perpetuate his hatred, by buying into his projection.

It didn't matter that some behavior is not chosen for you to assert it as a cause for mental illness. All that mattered was leaving the door open to calling someone with a mental disorder weak or foolish or selfish or undisciplined for you to be happy. And that's what I referred to. Lifestyle or childhood raising. But like I said, there's no truth to it. It's all determined for us, long before we have the choice to make any difference.

That's transparently contradictory. You can't judge someone as "weak or foolish or selfish or undisciplined" for behavior they have no conscious choice in. So you obviously haven't even thought through your own straw man enough to realize that much. You're arguing yourself, which doesn't bode well for your own mental health.
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#10
Quote:You can't judge someone as "weak or foolish or selfish or undisciplined" for behavior they have no conscious choice in.

If it's caused by behavior it certainly can be caused by something they have a choice in. And that's really all you needed--that sliver of an allowance to retain blame and stigmatizing as your go to tactic for attacking people's sexual orientation or mental illness. Because as everyone knows, that's just the kind of slimeball you are.
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