Are we a bit vague about teaching morality to children?

[Syne]

Just you, sweetheart.

[Magical Realist]

No..you're the same hateful prig to everyone. It's what you are.

[Secular Sanity]

Except many secular parents don't seem to manage anywhere near that much.

If you knew anything but your self-serving anti-religious bias, you might realize that religion teaches objectivity (being aware of your actions as an invisible observer, even when no one else is around). Where secularism has no defense against the "only wrong of you're caught" mentality.

Do you have any evidence to support this outlandish claim?

[Magical Realist]

Except many secular parents don't seem to manage anywhere near that much.

Bullshit. How could you possibly know something like that? What are the stats on secular parents teaching their kids moral values?

[Syne]

Except many secular parents don't seem to manage anywhere near that much.

If you knew anything but your self-serving anti-religious bias, you might realize that religion teaches objectivity (being aware of your actions as an invisible observer, even when no one else is around). Where secularism has no defense against the "only wrong of you're caught" mentality.

Do you have any evidence to support this outlandish claim?

Probably none that you'd either be able to understand or willing to accept.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_observer_theory
The idea, of an ever-present, invisible observer, cultivates seeing oneself from an objective perspective. You cannot imagine such an observer as real without, to some extent, imagining its perspective. Just like telling you not to think of an elephant requires you to think of an elephant in any attempt to comply.

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/wwi9Q9apHGI

"The task of moral education, then, is not to inculcate by rote great lists of do’s and don’ts, but rather to help people to predict the consequences of actions being considered. What are the long-term as well as immediate rewards and draw-backs of the acts? Will an act increase or decrease one’s chances of experiencing the hedonic triad of love, beauty, and creativity?" - https://www.atheists.org/activism/resour...hout-gods/

Hence, if you do not predict the consequence of being caught, pure self-interest rationally dictates the action is moral.

Except many secular parents don't seem to manage anywhere near that much.

Bullshit. How could you possibly know something like that? What are the stats on secular parents teaching their kids moral values?

Easy, the objectively verifiable results.

As far as compassion and serving the community....the religious volunteer and give more to charity.

"A new Pew Research Center study of the ways religion influences the daily lives of Americans finds that people who are highly religious are more engaged with their extended families, more likely to volunteer, more involved in their communities and generally happier with the way things are going in their lives." - http://www.pewforum.org/2016/04/12/relig...yday-life/

Charitable giving is highest among the most religious

And even just by association:

Atheists with social contacts with Christians give more to charity than other atheists

[Magical Realist]

Except many secular parents don't seem to manage anywhere near that much.

If you knew anything but your self-serving anti-religious bias, you might realize that religion teaches objectivity (being aware of your actions as an invisible observer, even when no one else is around). Where secularism has no defense against the "only wrong of you're caught" mentality.

Do you have any evidence to support this outlandish claim?

Probably none that you'd either be able to understand or willing to accept.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_observer_theory
The idea, of an ever-present, invisible observer, cultivates seeing oneself from an objective perspective. You cannot imagine such an observer as real without, to some extent, imagining its perspective. Just like telling you not to think of an elephant requires you to think of an elephant in any attempt to comply.

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/wwi9Q9apHGI

"The task of moral education, then, is not to inculcate by rote great lists of do’s and don’ts, but rather to help people to predict the consequences of actions being considered. What are the long-term as well as immediate rewards and draw-backs of the acts? Will an act increase or decrease one’s chances of experiencing the hedonic triad of love, beauty, and creativity?" - https://www.atheists.org/activism/resour...hout-gods/

Hence, if you do not predict the consequence of being caught, pure self-interest rationally dictates the action is moral.

Except many secular parents don't seem to manage anywhere near that much.

Bullshit. How could you possibly know something like that? What are the stats on secular parents teaching their kids moral values?

Easy, the objectively verifiable results.

As far as compassion and serving the community....the religious volunteer and give more to charity.

"A new Pew Research Center study of the ways religion influences the daily lives of Americans finds that people who are highly religious are more engaged with their extended families, more likely to volunteer, more involved in their communities and generally happier with the way things are going in their lives." - http://www.pewforum.org/2016/04/12/relig...yday-life/

Charitable giving is highest among the most religious

And even just by association:

Atheists with social contacts with Christians give more to charity than other atheists

You claimed secular parents are unsuccessful in teaching their children moral values. What's your evidence for that? Is contributing to charities the only form of contributing to the society? I live in a city that has a strong liberal presence and plenty of volunteer agencies that help vets, the homeless, the disabled, the elderly, the abused, the poor, etc. I'm pretty sure that's because liberalism emphasizes strong values for helping people, unlike conservatism where they just yell "get a job!"

[Syne]

Except many secular parents don't seem to manage anywhere near that much.

Bullshit. How could you possibly know something like that? What are the stats on secular parents teaching their kids moral values?

Easy, the objectively verifiable results.

As far as compassion and serving the community....the religious volunteer and give more to charity.

"A new Pew Research Center study of the ways religion influences the daily lives of Americans finds that people who are highly religious are more engaged with their extended families, more likely to volunteer, more involved in their communities and generally happier with the way things are going in their lives." - http://www.pewforum.org/2016/04/12/relig...yday-life/

Charitable giving is highest among the most religious

And even just by association:

Atheists with social contacts with Christians give more to charity than other atheists

You claimed secular parents are unsuccessful in teaching their children moral values. What's your evidence for that? Is contributing to charities the only form of contributing to the world?

Did you miss the bit about volunteering (you know "serving your community and having compassion"^), or is that just your confirmation bias rearing its ugly head?

[confused2]

I don't think anyone would deny that it is possible to be deluded in a good way - the right delusion may have good consequences. If a belief that god is watching improves behaviour then so be it - it does not, however, address the fact or fantasy of the existence of one (or more) gods.

Some time ago I was following up the idea that fairness might be a concept that is common to most individuals of most species. Do we need anything more than 'fairness' to define 'morality'? - I'm certainly a bit vague about that myself. Can the 1200 pages of the Bible be summed up in one word? Obviously if you have no faith in humanity you're going to need (at least) some wrath, locusts and a rather spooky observation system to keep an eye on what people are up to.

Could I test 'fair' against the bible - does it fail?

[Syne]

A poster of eyes watching you improves your behavior, but the belief in god is carried around with the individual everywhere.

"Our data therefore support the hypothesis that images of eyes induce more pro-social behaviour, independent of local norms. This finding has positive implications for the application of eye images in combating anti-social behaviour." - http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article...ne.0082055

No one said that positive effects spoke to the proof of a god.


You'd have to define "fairness". Is it everyone getting the same, everyone getting what they earn, or something else?

[Secular Sanity]

Could I test 'fair' against the bible - does it fail?

The bible is filled with injustice and atrocities.  The list goes on and on.

Genesis 19:8, Exodus 21:20-21, Leviticus 25:44-45, 1 Peter 2:18, Deuteronomy 22:20-21, Deuteronomy 25:11-12,
Leviticus 20:9, 2 Kings 2:23-24, Psalm 137:9, Deuteronomy 22:28-29, ect.  

But you should know, C2. God works in mysteries ways.

BTW, I’m down with the Easter Bunny if you can jazz things up a bit.  More chocolate, larger baskets, that sort of thing.  Oh, and I would like to plant jelly beans the night before and have them grow into giant lollipops. I used to that for my boys.  They loved it.  If you could pull that off, count me in.