2 hours ago
Following Survival Lilly's rant
The green energy self-destruction of the German economy (Survival Lilly)
https://www.scivillage.com/thread-19856-...l#pid81998
Prices are Euro .. I've change the Euro thing to (very similar) $ to avoid the what's that? thing. Mostly taken from Pi AI.
Generators bid how much electricity they can supply and at what price (per MWh), for each hour of the day - usually a day ahead.
The grid operator stacks all bids from cheapest to most expensive and accepts them until demand is met.
The last (most expensive) generator needed sets the market clearing price — and all accepted generators get paid that price.
So even if wind bids $0 or negative, if gas is the last one in at $80, everyone gets $80.
This is called uniform pricing — it rewards being cheap [?], but pays everyone the same.
Onshore wind: $40–60/MWh
Solar PV (utility): $50–70/MWh
Nuclear: $90–130/MWh (high upfront, low fuel)
Coal: $70–100/MWh (varies with carbon costs)
Gas (CCGT): $60–90/MWh (highly dependent on gas prices)
Oil (diesel/gensets): $100–180/MWh (rarely used for grid power)
Contract for Difference (CfD) is a long-term agreement between a generator (like a nuclear or wind farm) and the government (or a state-backed counterparty).
The generator gets a "strike price" — a guaranteed price per MWh (e.g., $120/MWh for Hinkley Point C in the UK).
Every year, the average wholesale market price is calculated.
If the market price is below the strike price, the government pays the difference to the generator.
If the market price is above the strike price, the generator pays the difference back.
Nuclear typically bids $0 to be first in line to supply (they can't NOT supply).
Generators can bid a negative value - it can be cheaper to run plant at a loss than shut down and restart. Germany had 438 hours (nearly three weeks) with negatively priced electricity .. folks got paid to use electricity .. at least in principle.
So the problem is a variable supply and a demand that doesn't respond to the supply. Consumers pay through the nose for the privilege of paying the same rate regardless of the actual cost of electricity. Given a typical (?) energy bill of (say) $2,000 .. a $200 gizmo might well save 30% annually (that would be $600) .. you don't want it? - that's on you - don't moan about it though.
Thanks to Pi AI.
The green energy self-destruction of the German economy (Survival Lilly)
https://www.scivillage.com/thread-19856-...l#pid81998
Prices are Euro .. I've change the Euro thing to (very similar) $ to avoid the what's that? thing. Mostly taken from Pi AI.
Generators bid how much electricity they can supply and at what price (per MWh), for each hour of the day - usually a day ahead.
The grid operator stacks all bids from cheapest to most expensive and accepts them until demand is met.
The last (most expensive) generator needed sets the market clearing price — and all accepted generators get paid that price.
So even if wind bids $0 or negative, if gas is the last one in at $80, everyone gets $80.
This is called uniform pricing — it rewards being cheap [?], but pays everyone the same.
Onshore wind: $40–60/MWh
Solar PV (utility): $50–70/MWh
Nuclear: $90–130/MWh (high upfront, low fuel)
Coal: $70–100/MWh (varies with carbon costs)
Gas (CCGT): $60–90/MWh (highly dependent on gas prices)
Oil (diesel/gensets): $100–180/MWh (rarely used for grid power)
Contract for Difference (CfD) is a long-term agreement between a generator (like a nuclear or wind farm) and the government (or a state-backed counterparty).
The generator gets a "strike price" — a guaranteed price per MWh (e.g., $120/MWh for Hinkley Point C in the UK).
Every year, the average wholesale market price is calculated.
If the market price is below the strike price, the government pays the difference to the generator.
If the market price is above the strike price, the generator pays the difference back.
Nuclear typically bids $0 to be first in line to supply (they can't NOT supply).
Generators can bid a negative value - it can be cheaper to run plant at a loss than shut down and restart. Germany had 438 hours (nearly three weeks) with negatively priced electricity .. folks got paid to use electricity .. at least in principle.
So the problem is a variable supply and a demand that doesn't respond to the supply. Consumers pay through the nose for the privilege of paying the same rate regardless of the actual cost of electricity. Given a typical (?) energy bill of (say) $2,000 .. a $200 gizmo might well save 30% annually (that would be $600) .. you don't want it? - that's on you - don't moan about it though.
Thanks to Pi AI.