Trump's MAGA base turns on him

[Magical Realist]

MAGA supporter Rosanne Barr enlightening us all on Tucker Carlson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mSz-gZ9XCI

[Syne]

Carlson has had softball interviews with Putin and the president of Iran. If anyone still thinks he has credibility, much less Rosanne, you might be a lost cause.

[Magical Realist]

Why would a MAGA nutjob like Rosanne have any credibility?

[stryder]

What do you get when you cross reference some of the conspiracy points mentioned:

... The conspiracy theories are that this new release of documents is going to finally be the thing that brings down the elite trafficking cabal that’s been running the world for 6,000 years...

Some people believe the world/universe is only 6000 years old.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism

...The Clinton conspiracy industry started in the early 90s...

Bill Clinton was inaugurated in 1993.

What also happened in April 1993 was the Waco Siege between the ATF and the Davidian Cult.

(Later in 1997, still in Clintons reign there was the Heavensgate cult with it's mass suicide.)


These points together provide a clue that certain unhinged anti-establishment wingnuts at the time wouldn't of been happy with the Government or certain members of it (Clinton), and would likely of decided to attack them through the means of religious conspiracy propagation for years. This would of meant misusing forums and social media networks to widen those conspiracies in a public light, causing the formation of such groups as QAnon to try to generate legitimacy (Which is just a bunch of conspiracists trying to milk 4Chan's "Anonymous" fame).

Why they backed Trump?... Trump appealed to them because he was an outsider to normal politicians, So he gained more of the fence-sitters and wackadoos. I'm pretty sure they would of just assumed that he'll either break the system they don't like or fail spectacularly doing so, they might of even thought they could leverage him since they aided his powerbase, which incidentally means they conspired to put him there. (in other words they become part of the conspiracy they write and fuss about)

All of this is just speculations, it would require far more data points to work it all out.

[Yazata]

[Image: Gv2WTGIbEAA-iyr?format=jpg&name=medium]

[Syne]

Procuring and sexually trafficking underage girls for Epstein doesn't involve other "clients."
So yes, the DOJ can do both.

[C C]

Epstein client list: The terms "Epstein list" and "Epstein files" also refers to the myriad of court documents relating to Epstein, some of which have been publicly released. For example, court documents and flight logs have already named various prominent individuals as having travelled with Epstein, or been in contact with him.

Flight logs and other types of associations with Epstein.

Even if the purported flight logs here were actually real, not all the flights were probably to his island (as asserted). Since Bill Clinton is among those, but where Clinton traveled with Epstein is documented in magazine articles published years before Epstein first got into legal trouble in 2005.

Epstein had ties with many politicians, scientists, entertainment celebrities, royal family members, humanitarians, journalists, and other business magnates like Trump. But like Clinton, much of those interactions were probably funding and donation oriented (including using his aircraft), along with Epstein desiring to hobnob with his idols -- rather than involving wide-range illegal and underage sexual services to that vast array of notable individuals.

Still, the stigma of being associated with Epstein in any way at all would be bloated into the latter by the imagination of the average public spectator. And that's likely where the fear rests with these countless "persons of interest", even though most (including Trump) have been "outed" as POI previously: Jeffrey Epstein list: Who is named in court filings?

And there, among the dozens of "persons of interest", only Prince Andrew and Bill Richardson seem to have received accusations.

Here are parts of an old article posted elsewhere in Scivillage years ago (between 2016 and 2018), well before Epstein even got into his final round of trouble (2019) that ended in suicide...

(2002) Jeffrey Epstein: International Moneyman of Mystery
https://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/

EXCERPTS: Epstein likes to tell people that he’s a loner, a man who’s never touched alcohol or drugs, and one whose nightlife is far from energetic. And yet if you talk to Donald Trump, a different Epstein emerges. “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,” Trump booms from a speakerphone. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”

[...] here’s the thing about Epstein: As some collect butterflies, he collects beautiful minds. “I invest in people — be it politics or science. It’s what I do,” he has said to friends. And his latest prize addition is the former president. In his eyes, Clinton as a species represents the highest evolutionary form of the political animal...

[...] “Jeffrey is both a highly successful financier and a committed philanthropist with a keen sense of global markets and an in-depth knowledge of twenty-first-century science,” Clinton says through a spokesman. “I especially appreciated his insights and generosity during the recent trip to Africa to work on democratization, empowering the poor, citizen service, and combating HIV/AIDS.”

[...] What attracted Clinton to Epstein was quite simple: He had a plane (he has a couple, in fact — the Boeing 727, in which he took Clinton to Africa, and, for shorter jaunts, a black Gulfstream, a Cessna 421, and a helicopter to ferry him from his island to St. Thomas). Clinton had organized a weeklong tour of South Africa, Nigeria, Ghana, Rwanda, and Mozambique to do what Clinton does. So when the president’s advance man Doug Band pitched the idea to Epstein, he said sure. As an added bonus, Kevin Spacey, a close friend of Clinton’s, and actor Chris Tucker came along for the ride.

[...] Epstein has a particularly close relationship with Martin Nowak, an Austrian biology and mathematics professor ... After dinner, Epstein asked if Nowak wanted to meet up with his new friend President Clinton, and off they went to a nearby deli, where Clinton regaled the starstruck former Oxford professor with tales from his own Oxford days. “Jeffrey has the mind of a physicist. It’s like talking to a colleague in your field,” says Nowak. “Sometimes he applies what we talk about to his investments. Sometimes it’s for his own curiosity. He has changed my life. Because of his support, I feel I can do anything I want.”

[...] Epstein brings a trophy-hunter’s zeal to his collection of scientists and politicians. ... Like former Democratic Senate leader George Mitchell, for example. ... Says Mitchell: “He has supported some philanthropic projects of mine and organized a fund-raiser for me once. I would certainly call him a friend and a supporter.”

But it is his covey of scientists that inspires Epstein’s true rapture. Epstein spends $20 million a year on them — encouraging them to engage in whatever kind of cutting-edge research might attract their fancy. They are, of course, quite lavish in their praise in return. Gerald Edelman won the Nobel Prize for physiology and medicine in 1972 and now presides over the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla. “Jeff is extraordinary in his ability to pick up on quantitative relations,” says Edelman. “He came to see us recently. He is concerned with this basic question: Is it true that the brain is not a computer? He is very quick.”

Then there is Stephen Kosslyn, a psychologist at Harvard [...] Danny Hillis, an MIT-educated computer scientist whose company, Thinking Machines, was at the forefront of the supercomputing world in the eighties [...] On the 727 these days, he [Epstein] has been reading a book by E. O. Wilson, the eminent scientist and originator of the field of sociobiology, called Consilience...

[Yazata]

Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted of sex trafficing of underage girls. Which clearly implies that somebody had sex with them.

If not, why were Ghislaine and Epstein prosecuted for giving the girls free Caribbean trips?

If there was sex with the underage girls, then the FBI must have a pretty good idea who some of the perps were. That's the list.

But the FBI and DOJ seemingly have zero interest in following up. That suggests to me that some very big names might be implicated.

[C C]

Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted of sex trafficing of underage girls. Which clearly implies that somebody had sex with them.

If not, why were Ghislaine and Epstein prosecuted for giving the girls free Caribbean trips?

If there was sex with the underage girls, then the FBI must have a pretty good idea who some of the perps were. That's the list.

But the FBI and DOJ seemingly have zero interest in following up. That suggests to me that some very big names might be implicated.

As much as one can make out, Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted for procuring and trafficking girls to Epstein himself. If he or she ever "loaned" them to anyone else, only Prince Andrew [and possibly Bill Richardson] got close to qualifying. But any potential there fell apart.

While Epstein wired up his places with video cameras and claimed he had dirt on people in high places (their sexual proclivities and recreational drug habits), those threats just fizzled into something equivalent to David Grusch's talk about Black Ops projects reverse engineering crashed flying saucers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Ep...recordings
https://web.archive.org/web/201908220040...rview.html
https://web.archive.org/web/201605220904...nce-andrew

More released court papers will just mention the same bevy of "persons of interest" who flew at one time or another with Epstein and had any kind of financial dealings or "friendship" with him whatsoever. All cleared, and matters slash information which those clamoring now apparently just ignored when such was released before.

Again, the fears of those former POIs seem to rest purely in how the masses will conflate any type of association with Epstein with having something to do with the myth of conveying thousands of powerful people to his island for underage sex romps. Or a belief that if files are released a second time around, that the public might actually pay attention to those who were the POIs rather than simply ignore that data once more.

[Syne]

Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted of sex trafficing of underage girls. Which clearly implies that somebody had sex with them.

Yes, Epstein, if not also Maxwell.

If not, why were Ghislaine and Epstein prosecuted for giving the girls free Caribbean trips?

Sex trafficking is the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, obtaining, patronizing, or soliciting of a person for the purpose of a commercial sex act in which a commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age.
- https://www.justice.gov/humantrafficking

It's also technically kidnapping to take a minor, even willfully, from their home state/country without a guardian's consent.

If there was sex with the underage girls, then the FBI must have a pretty good idea who some of the perps were. That's the list.

But the FBI and DOJ seemingly have zero interest in following up. That suggests to me that some very big names might be implicated.

The "list" has basically become an urban legend at this point, the conspiratorial fervor far outpacing the evidence.
The only thing we know the FBI had was flight logs and names of associations... already publicly known. IOW, circumstantial, without further damning evidence.

Conspiracy theorists have conflated the unfounded accusations of victim Virginia Giuffre, that were not found to be credible enough to include in Maxwell's prosecution, with the "list."