Trump's MAGA base turns on him

[Magical Realist]

This is what happens when your voter base is a bunch of National Enquirer-reading low IQ conspiracy theorists. Everybody's a pedophile in their world.

"TAMPA, Fla. — On the weekend President Donald Trump decided to pick his biggest political fight to date with the MAGA base he created in his own image, thousands of his adherents were gathered together.

And all they wanted to talk about here at the Student Action Summit hosted by the conservative activist group Turning Point USA was the "Epstein files."

“I think that these people — and I don’t know, for whatever reason, there could be reasons — but I don’t think they’re telling us the truth about Epstein,” podcaster Brandon Tatum told the assembled crowd at the Tampa Convention Center. “I think that that that guy was involved in something nefarious that implicates a whole lot of people. And my guess is that the whole lot of people may have, may happen to be some of our allies and some people that we don’t want to have a bad relationship with.”

Trump pulled the rug out from his base Saturday evening when he released a lengthy social media post that completely dismissed the importance of the issue that has consumed the right for the past week — and longer.

“For years, it’s Epstein, over and over again,” Trump posted on Truth Social, blaming the files on Democrats. “Why are we giving publicity to Files written by Obama, Crooked Hillary, Comey, Brennan, and the Losers and Criminals of the Biden administration.”

Trump's supporters have gone along with him through every scandal and policy shift. When he made a decision, his base backed him. But the Epstein issue is challenging this alliance like never before.

This week, the Justice Department said it would not release any additional files related to the case of the late financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Epstein died in 2019 while in custody, and a medical examiner ruled his death a suicide. He was facing sex trafficking and conspiracy charges.

Attorney General Pam Bondi released a two-page memo saying that the department's review turned up no “client list” of powerful men who allegedly participated in Epstein's schemes, and there was no “credible evidence found that Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals.”

The memo enraged Trump supporters, who quickly turned on Bondi, a sentiment clearly felt at the Student Action Summit. For years, some top figures in the Trump administration had pushed unfounded theories about the Epstein files, and Bondi herself told Fox News in February that the Epstein client was "sitting on my desk right now." Trump also repeatedly said he would release the Epstein files.

And in February, Bondi kept the issue alive by bringing right-wing influencers to the White House and giving them Epstein documents. But even that release wasn't enough, as the influencers — and even Bondi herself — insisted that the FBI had more documents that it wasn't sharing.

There was no escaping the topic of the Epstein files this weekend in Tampa, with many attendees and speakers calling for Bondi to be fired — even as Trump sent the clear message that he wants his supporters to move on.

“It’s not even about Pam Bondi to me. It’s like, look, Trump, we elected you because you were supposed to be different,” said Sharon Allen, a 24-year-old attendee. “So you have to prove to us you’re different….you can fire her [Bondi], do whatever, but at the end of the day, Trump, you are president. We trusted you to get rid of these people and expose these people.”

Former Florida state Rep. Anthony Sabatini, who was among Trump's biggest supporters when in the state Legislature and was in attendance at the event, called Trump's Truth Social post "out of touch."

"Trump is losing his touch," Sabatini said. "Bad personnel are undermining him left and right. We need a full reset."

Trump's message on Truth Social also defended Bondi. Summit attendees almost universally sided with FBI Director Kash Patel and Deputy Director Dan Bongino, both of whom, NBC News and other outlets reported, were frustrated with Bondi's handling of the Epstein documents."---
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-a...rcna218385

[Syne]

I've been commenting on a lot of right-wing videos lately. I think it's appalling to scapegoat Bondi. People who just want heads to roll, any heads, are the same sort of mob we decry in leftist cancel culture. If people like Bongino and Patel, who've been full-throated proponents of the conspiracy theories, are now saying there's no there there, after seeing the actual evidence, I have no reason to disbelieve them. Much less blame it all on Bondi. Good on Trump for standing behind his people... all of his people. That kind of loyalty from leadership earns reciprocal loyalty, and God knows Trump needs it.

This seems to be a confluence of conspiracy theorists, true crime fans, and law and order patriotism. While I can sympathize with the desire for justice, it seems many conspiracy theorists get out over their skis and then, instead of admitting as much, they have to defend their egos, if not justify their unslaked bloodlust.

The crux of the dispute seems to center around what people mean by "Epstein list." As far as I can tell, this has at least three different meanings:
1) A list Epstein compiled of people he had damning blackmail evidence on.
2) A list of Epstein clients, business associates, and/or people who simply flew on his plane or visited his island... complied by the FBI as a part of their investigation.
3) The list of people Virginia Giuffre accused of sex crimes against minors.

Since Giuffre wasn't even called as a witness in the Ghislaine Maxwell trial, because she had been found not credible in previous cases, I wouldn't put much stock in 3, but this seems to be the basis for much of the conspiracies. Since I have no reason to doubt the DOJ statement that no evidence was found to incriminate others, 1 seems unlikely.

So that leaves us with the most trivial and least likely to appease the conspiracy theorists. And that seems to be all that people are upset about. They got out over their skis and now can't manage to reel themselves back in. Just another example of why conspiracy theories are not a good pastime. Hopefully calmer heads prevail, but even some that are pretty rational seem to be scapegoating Bondi for just trying to do what Trump promised in his campaign... which should be all the reason Trump needs to defend and support her.

[confused2]

The rule seems to be that no action should be taken if the people involved are rich Republicans and/or Trump supporters. Hence the need for control of the judicial system.
Republicans wouldn't have a problem with this except some draw the line at pedophilia, some don't.

[stryder]

I'm surprised the conspiracy theorist haven't tried looking into Jill Dando murder in the 1990s. There was a lot of conspiracies circling at the time, one was she at the time was in the process of investigating some high profile sex trafficking/pedophiles. Over the years people took that to mean the BBC (which they deny, and is likely further foreign slander aimed at what they see as a state run channel)... However but it could well have been the likes of Epstein and those he was involved in.

[C C]

Sounds like the usual "Catcher in the Rye" idealistic youth and their "phony" fixation attached to everything in post-30-year-old adult society.

The kids aren't letting it go: Epstein case outrages Gen-Z ... https://youtu.be/O8YFRr76UnY

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/O8YFRr76UnY

---

The Epstein furor illustrates why -- despite the endorsement of Trump's son (on the latter's podcast) of Elizondo's UFO conspiracies -- Trump senior would be crazy to release any further UAP related government/military stuff. The latter would just add to undermining the credibility of Elizondo's beliefs (and his followers), just as the recent establishment investigations did (during Biden's term). Resulting in similar angry backlash against Trump. Being the calculating opportunist that he is, there's no reason for Trump to risk indulging the desires of a faction where there's only a negative downside to garner. (David Grusch was hazed: The Pentagon disinformation that fueled UFO mythololgy)

Was It Scrap Metal or an Alien Spacecraft? The Army Asked an Elite Defense Lab to Investigate
https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-se..._permalink

EXCERPTS: Threats against Kirkpatrick began to escalate. [...] In November 2023, Kirkpatrick announced his retirement. ... he wrote that the narrative provided by the former officials “is a textbook example of circular reporting, with each person relaying what they heard, but the information often ultimately being sourced to the same small group of individuals.”

The next day, Elizondo wrote in an apparent veiled reference to Kirkpatrick on social media: “I left my job in protest, others leave in shame.” [...] After Trump’s election, Elizondo took his message back to Washington.

“Advanced technologies not made by our government, or any other government, are monitoring sensitive military installations around the globe,” he told a congressional hearing in November.

In January, he got an audience with the incoming president’s son, Donald Trump Jr., who devoted an episode of his podcast to the topic of a government alien coverup. “It seems that there’s evidence of nonhuman intelligence out there engaging with our planet,” Trump posited.

“Your dad’s going to go down in history as being the one who actually brought truth and transparency to this topic,” Elizondo said. “Or they’re going to go ahead and stonewall him.” (MORE - missing details)

[Syne]

The rule seems to be that no action should be taken if the people involved are rich Republicans and/or Trump supporters. Hence the need for control of the judicial system.
Republicans wouldn't have a problem with this except some draw the line at pedophilia, some don't.

Your usual ignorant twaddle.

Biden had the same files he could have released. If it were damning to Republicans, why didn't he?

---

Democrat Ro Khanna Demands Vote To Release Full Jeffrey Epstein Files

Representative Ro Khanna (D‑CA) has announced plans to force a vote in the House of Representatives demanding the full, unredacted release of all documents related to disgraced financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.

Suspiciously, Democrats are only seeming to get on board when they found out the files include child porn. Notice how he doesn't mention or specify an "Epstein list."

[confused2]

The question..
"Biden had the same files he could have released. .. why didn't he?"
The answer..
"Democrats are only seeming [seeming?] to get on board when they found out the files include child porn."
What's with 'seeming'? Are they or aren't they?
Edit
Seems like republicans don't want the files published because there might be republicans involved and democrats want them published because there might be pedophiles involved.

[Syne]

Well, I thought you'd be able to read between the lines. Democrats often defend pedophiles, hence wanting files released that include child porn. Seeming in the timing, not in the action. That wasn't an answer to my previous comment. I guess you don't know what a horizontal rule means. 9_9

Everyone knew pedophilia was involved when Biden was in office, hence why didn't Biden release more info... especially if it were damning to Republicans. But only more recently have they admitted that some evidence cannot be released, because the DOJ is obviously not going to release child porn.

[Magical Realist]

Pizzagate, QAnon and the ‘Epstein List’: Why the Far Right Is Obsessed with Sex Trafficking

An expert on conspiracy theories explains why MAGA figures are embracing the latest twist in the Jeffrey Epstein saga.

"A day before the so-called Epstein list was supposed to drop, far-right conspiracy theorists buzzed with excitement over the expectation that it would crucify prominent figures on the left for their involvement in sex trafficking. It’s a wildly popular notion in that world, where Pizzagate and QAnon fantasies run rampant.

The truth, of course, was far different: The material made public in federal court last week, with more now being released, wasn’t some kind of Jeffrey Epstein client list, as had been speculated online. It was actually documents from a court case filed by one of Epstein’s victims that did include people’s names, but provided little new information on whether they knew of or participated in Epstein’s heinous crimes.

To get a sense of why conspiracy theories centered on sex trafficking and pedophilia — and now the “Epstein list” — are so buzzy in MAGA circles, POLITICO Magazine called up Mike Rothschild, author of The Storm Is Upon Us: How QAnon Became a Movement, Cult, and Conspiracy Theory of Everything and Jewish Space Lasers: The Rothschilds and 200 Years of Conspiracy Theories.


Rothschild pointed to a toxic stew of age-old antisemitism; the worst incentives of today’s social media; and the right’s unending obsession with Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Donald Trump pops up in the documents, including some released on Monday, but that’s typically not a problem for his hard-core supporters. As with most conspiracy theories, adherents create their own reality.

“There’s nothing Trump can do that will lose these people’s loyalty,” Rothschild said. “Anything that is inconvenient, that alters their worldview, they’ll just ignore it, or they’ll make up some bizarre justification for it.”

Q: What are the conspiracy theories surrounding the so-called Epstein list?

A: The conspiracy theories are that this new release of documents is going to finally be the thing that brings down the elite trafficking cabal that’s been running the world for 6,000 years. There’s this perception that there’s been information that’s been held back by the courts or by politicians or the media, this is finally going to put everything out in the open.

And because I’ve studied these movements for so long, I know that these movements really revolve around this idea that there will be a document or a memo or a list or a recording. And that will finally be the thing that finally ends the evil grip of the New World Order, and it never does. They always move on to the next one.

Q: A common misconception is that the list documented Epstein’s clients who partook in sexual acts with minors, but that’s not the case, right?

A: It’s not the case at all. It’s a dump of documents related to the case. It’s not the smoking gun that’s going to finally bring down all of these powerful ones. A lot of the information and many of the names that are being revealed in these documents have already been known. Some of them were redacted.

But so far, I don’t really think there’s much of anything that we’ve learned that really changes our perception of what Epstein did and kind of who in his orbit knew what, because we know a lot of that already. We know it because of tenacious reporting, and the courage of the accusers who have faced him.

Q: Then why was there so much excitement for the list within MAGA circles online — especially when the list itself wasn’t even documentation of Epstein’s clients?

A: I think it really ties back to this industry of conspiracy theories about the Clintons. I think they really feel like this will be the thing that brings down Bill and Hillary Clinton. They’re still obsessed with the Clintons. And so anything that can serve as the final nail in their coffin, they’re going to rally around, even if, of course, Trump and a lot of the people around Trump are also implicated in all of these documents. They don’t care about that at all. It’s about the Clintons and the rest of the liberal establishment.

Q: What is it about the Clintons that captivates far-right conspiracy theorists like this?

A: Part of it is that it’s already been three decades of this: The Clinton conspiracy industry started in the early 90s. It started with stuff like Whitewater, Travelgate, stuff that is ancient history now. But there was a really well-funded, very organized and popular effort to bring the Clintons down. And then of course, it resulted in the impeachment, it resulted in the dump truck full of conspiracies about Hillary Clinton when she ran for president. And even though they’re not really in the public eye much anymore, it’s so prolific that conspiracy theorists have stuck with them because they know what works. They’re just like a classic rock band playing the hits.

Q:You wrote a book on QAnon. Based on your research, why are conservatives so obsessed with the theory that prominent left-wing figures like the Clintons are running pedophile rings? Where does that conspiracy theory originate from?

A: There’s always been a certain amount of salaciousness in these conspiracy theories, and there are theories going back about the awful sexual depravity of the Catholics or later on of the Jews. So you’re always going to find a certain amount of attention paid to any kind of conspiracy theory involving sexual proclivity of trafficking. And if it involves children, people immediately just lose their mind — even if these children don’t exist. There are no children who have been trafficked because of Pizzagate because Pizzgate isn’t real.

But if you just put out the suggestion there, it grabs ahold in a way that is difficult to dislodge. I think a lot of it has to do with antisemitism. I think a lot of it has to do with fear of the occult and Satanic panic. So you get all of these things that are mixed together: the anti-Jewish sentiment, the fear of Satanism. And, of course, now it extends to social media. So you have these powerful figures, in media, in politics, in culture, academia. It’s very easy to kind of put these people together as part of this vast conspiracy. And if there’s a conspiracy of them, well, they’re probably doing horrible things to children, too, because that’s what evil people do."

Q: You’ve mentioned that all these conspiracy theories are connected. How does the Epstein saga fit into the broader ecosystem of far-right conspiracy theories, including QAnon and Pizzagate? Particularly when Epstein was never even a figure on the left?

A: The QAnon and Pizzagate people — they really have embraced Epstein as the most obvious example of these sort of high-level traffickings. Of course, with Epstein, a lot of it was true. He was doing these things, he was connected to this absolutely abhorrent behavior.

But part of what happens is we lose the ability to discern noise from signal. So you’re tarring as a pedophile anybody who had any kind of association with Epstein. And of course, most of the people who were associated with Epstein had nothing to do with what he was doing. Some of them may have known about it, some of them may have looked the other way. And they certainly have a lot of hard questions to answer about their associations with Epstein and what they knew. But just because a person had a meeting with Jeffrey Epstein doesn’t make them part of sex trafficking rings. But it’s very easy to point at all of these people and say, “They’re all working together. They’re all hiding the same things. They’re all doing the same horrible things. And we’re the only people who will talk about it.”

Q: Do you think if the Clintons weren’t involved, the “Epstein list” wouldn’t have blown up like this?

A: I really don’t think it would’ve. I don’t think it would have gotten quite the attention. I think there would have been some attention; you do have people in that world who are really obsessed with the idea of trafficking and Pizzagate and all that other stuff, but I think the Clinton connection is really what vaulted it into the stratosphere.

Q:How did these people use the “Epstein list” as ammunition for their conspiracy theories, and how does the role of the internet factor into all this?

A: Internet is a huge part of it, and social media in particular. It spreads incredibly quickly, because it sounds believable and if you share it with some documents, it doesn’t matter if they’re real or not. The people who are passing this stuff around don’t care.

It’s very easy to spread these things around and very easy to ignore the parts of it that you don’t find to be palatable to your worldview, such as Donald Trump’s connections to it, and you play up the connections of people like Bill Clinton.

Q: Do you see that misinformation about Epstein has been spreading more than other conspiracy theories?


A: I think it’s definitely spreading more. I think part of it is the fact that Twitter (now called X) has been so completely eviscerated as a source of truth. As soon as the documents came out, I started seeing fakes. And they were getting passed around by verified accounts with a million followers, who are making tons of ad money, because Elon Musk has completely eviscerated verification on Twitter. They have every incentive to pass fake documents along and if somebody says, “Oh, that’s not real,” who cares?

Disinformation and conspiracy theories spread so quickly and so readily on social media, while the rest of us are doing our research and writing our articles and doing our interviews, trying to figure out what this actually means. The people who believe this stuff have already decided what it means. And they don’t want to be told differently.

Twitter and people like Alex Jones and people like Steve Bannon, they have an alternative media ecosystem. These are not fringe people anymore. This is not the guy standing outside the football stadium waving a sign about the end is coming. This is a massive industry. You’ve got billions of dollars being pumped into misinformation, into these products, into these podcasts, into these books. It’s a job for a lot of these people, and they’re very good at it. They spread this stuff very quickly. They know it doesn’t matter whether it’s real or not, their audience doesn’t care.

Trump’s appearance in the documents unsettled some conservatives, like Alex Jones. Others like Jack Posobiec rushed to Trump’s defense by posting screenshots from the released court documents, claiming that Trump was exonerated. How does Trump’s presence here complicate the worldview of MAGA conspiracy theorists, especially those who thought Trump would save the nation from pedophiles?

It doesn’t complicate it at all. They just sweep it away. There’s nothing Trump can do that will lose these people’s loyalty. Whatever his involvement is, they just pretend it’s not there. Or they say, “Well, he was only there because he was getting information on Epstein to give to the FBI.” I saw tons of that early on in QAnon. The idea that there’s some sort of undercover sting operation. I’m like, really? I don’t think Donald Trump could stay quiet about that for five seconds. But you believe it, you talk yourself into it.

So it’s a lot like a lot of Trump’s other associations, and I write about this in my book on the Rothschilds. The Trump Taj Mahal was actually saved from bankruptcy by Rothschild Inc. Their bankruptcy guy was Wilbur Ross, who helped structure the deal that got the Taj Mahal out of bankruptcy. And, of course, Wilbur Ross later became Trump’s commerce secretary. You’ve never heard a peep about it from Trump believers, they just sweep it away. Anything that is inconvenient, that alters their worldview, they’ll just ignore it, or they’ll make up some bizarre justification for it.

With Epstein, we know how bad he was. And there may be some people who have a difficult time because they wind up in one of these documents. But ultimately, it’s not going to change that Epstein was a horrible person, and that it was people who were connected to Trump who helped him get out of prison the first time, that it was the incompetence of the jail that allowed him to take his own life. That is not going to change. There’s not going to be a document that completely alters our understanding of what happened.

Q: What does it take to change the minds of conspiracy theorists, especially when it seems they’ll jump through all sorts of hoops in order to distort their reality for the sake of their own beliefs?

A: Most people will not change their mind. Most people will double down, they will show absolutely no interest in being wrong. For a lot of these people, that’s the worst thing that can happen. They have to go back to their friends and family and say, “You were right, I was wrong, and I’m an idiot.”

Sometimes it does happen. You will find people who have gotten out of movements like QAnon or have broken away from the hardcore Trump worship because they’ll read something or they’ll hear something that they just can’t reconcile with how they see the world. And once you find one thing that doesn’t work for you and these movements, you start to find more of them. I liken it to a tapestry where if you pull on one thread, the whole thing immediately unravels. But you have to want to pull on that thread, you have to prepare yourself for the possibility of it all, and you being left with a view that is completely collapsed. For a lot of people, that’s just too difficult. They just can’t handle it. So they just burrow into it more, and the more things go wrong, and the more predictions fail, and the more things don’t come true, the more they believe because they just have nowhere else to go."-----
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2...n-00134394

[Syne]

That the left even has to ask why someone would be concerned with sex trafficking, especially of minors, tells you more about the left.

Pretty wishful thinking that merely having one conspiracy theory debunked would "unravel" a person's whole value system. Just look at MR. No matter how many ghosts, UFOs, big foot, etc. are roundly debunked, he still believes in all the others.