Trump falsely accuses Ukraine of starting the war

[Syne]

Again, how many people do you want to die in this war? What's your solution?

Anything at all?

[Magical Realist]

Again, how many people do you want to die in this war? What's your solution?

Anything at all?

Help Ukraine in its effort to defend itself from being taken over by a Russian dictator. There are worse things than fighting a war. Losing one's freedom and autonomy is one of those.

[Syne]

Again, how many people do you want to die in this war? What's your solution?

Anything at all?

Help Ukraine in its effort to defend itself from being taken over by a Russian dictator. There are worse things than fighting a war. Losing one's freedom and autonomy is one of those.

Selfish prick! Easy to say when you know you'll never be called into duty. Way to be so generous with sacrificing the lives of others.

So you think, what, we can arm and fund Ukraine enough that they win? You don't think Putin would escalate? You don't think Putin would take heavy US involvement as a provocation? What do you want to happen, for the US to nuke Russia?

Use your fucking brain.

[Magical Realist]

Way to be so generous with sacrificing the lives of others.

The brave and proud Ukrainians wouldn't have it any other way. I know you're too much of a pussy to understand wanting to defend your country and even die for it if necessary, but that's what every country has done since the beginning of time. Read up on history sometime.

So you think, what, we can arm and fund Ukraine enough that they win? You don't think Putin would escalate?

Of course. How else do you win a war? With weapons and artillery and F16 fighter jets and tanks and drones. And your buddy Putin is already hurting. He's sending in wounded troops back to the frontlines now.

"The Russian military is sending wounded troops on crutches back to the frontlines to fight, and redeploying soldiers with significant injuries to combat roles, as it struggles with growing manpower issues, according to videos and testimony obtained by CNN.

Frontline footage posted by Ukrainian drone operators and Russian troops show men who have clearly suffered leg injuries, some still bandaged, using crutches in combat areas, in several instances targeted by Ukrainian drones as they use the walking aids to try to flee.

“The Russians are recycling the wounded back into the fight,” one Western official said, referring to videos of “troops on crutches being pushed back into the line.”

The use of wounded soldiers is a sign that Moscow is managing its growing manpower issues without a wider, general mobilisation, which would be unpopular among Russia’s urban middle classes, according to the official, who spoke to CNN on condition of anonymity on a sensitive topic."

You don't think Putin would take heavy US involvement as a provocation? What do you want to happen, for the US to nuke Russia?

We've been doing it for 3 years now to the tune of 350 billion and Putin hasn't done anything yet. Ofcourse now with his buddy Trump in office lifting sanctions on Russia and kissing his ass, its all good for him now.

[Syne]

Way to be so generous with sacrificing the lives of others.

The brave and proud Ukrainians wouldn't have it any other way. I know you're too much of a pussy to understand wanting to defend your country and even die for it if necessary, but that's what every country has done since the beginning of time. Read up on history sometime.

History is not replete with countries begging every other country to help them defend themselves. You're the only pussy fop here volunteering others to die.
And what about the 6.8 million Ukrainian refugees? Do those 6.8 million also want to sacrifice their lives? If they've only been displaced within Ukraine, what happens when Putin escalates the war due to US involvement?

So you think, what, we can arm and fund Ukraine enough that they win? You don't think Putin would escalate?

Of course. How else do you win a war? With weapons and artillery and F16 fighter jets and tanks and drones. And your buddy Putin is already hurting. He's sending in wounded troops back to the frontlines now.

You can't spend your way out of every war. And as soon as we provide Ukraine with arms they could use to attack within Russia, Putin will escalate, possibly nuking Ukrainian cities.
Do you really think Putin wouldn't? If so, you have far more faith in Putin than I do.

You don't think Putin would take heavy US involvement as a provocation? What do you want to happen, for the US to nuke Russia?

We've been doing it for 3 years now to the tune of 350 billion and Putin hasn't done anything yet. Ofcourse now with his buddy Trump in office lifting sanctions on Russia and kissing his ass, its all good for him now.

It's been far less than Zelenskyy has asked for, including withholding weapons and aircraft capable of striking within Russia. And the 350 billion hasn't provided anything but a stalemate and more deaths.

Donald Trump says he doesn’t like economic sanctions. The U.S. president has however hinted he might use that weapon to force his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin to the negotiating table and try to strike a deal on Ukraine.
- https://www.reuters.com/breakingviews/eu...025-02-17/

So far, Trump only lifted some sanctions during his first term... when Russia wasn't invading anyone.

---

This what a piece of shit Zelenskyy is. He has a talk with Vance and Rubio, where Zelenskyy agrees that the US gets access to their rare minerals and in exchange the US has a vested interest in Ukraine's security. Zelenskyy says he just has to run it by his legislature first. Then he tells the media he rejected the deal. Like Biden before him, this is when Trump really starts talking trash on Zelenskyy. Now suddenly Zelenskyy is in favor of the rare minerals deal.

So this spoiled brat comes begging, wants to act like a tough guy who can afford to reject a US security offer, and then ultimately has to reveal who he really is all along.
Again, Biden even cussed him out about this kind of behavior.

[Magical Realist]

History is not replete with countries begging every other country to help them defend themselves.

Yes it is. That's why we have alliances and federations and leagues of nations thru out history that can band together and defend each other when attacked. And Ukraine isn't relying on anybody to defend them. They've lost up to a half a million in this war, and are courageously continuing to fight every day while you and your daddy Trump show nothing but contempt for them. Thankfully you don't speak for most Americans.

https://today.umd.edu/umd-critical-issue...aine-jumps

You can't spend your way out of every war. And as soon as we provide Ukraine with arms they could use to attack within Russia, Putin will escalate, possibly nuking Ukrainian cities.

Like I said, Putin is already running out of troops and recycling the wounded to the front lines. And he is facing tremendous backlash at home for this war already and wouldn't dare escalate it. The only way to deal with Putin and his aggression against Ukraine is by all the nations helping Ukraine win the war:

"Economic hardships alone will not bring Putin to the negotiating table. He must also be forced to confront the prospect of military defeat. This will require a major shift in thinking among Ukraine’s partners. At present, Ukraine finds itself forced to fight a defensive war of attrition with the aim of inflicting unacceptable losses on the invading Russians. However, Putin clearly has a very high tolerance for losses, and can also call upon huge untapped reserves of manpower to replenish the depleted ranks of his army. If the current war of attrition continues, Russia will eventually and inevitably win.

Instead, Ukraine must be equipped to defeat Russia on the battlefield. The Ukrainian military has repeatedly demonstrated its ability to beat Russia, but currently lacks the military capabilities to turn local victories into a war-winning position. This needs to change.

Western fears of escalation mean Kyiv is still being denied a wide range of weapons and faces restrictions on its ability to defend itself. As a result of this overly cautious approach, the Kremlin is able to wage a total war against Ukraine with little fear of major counterattacks inside Russia. Putin also enjoys overwhelming advantages in firepower, including a far larger and more advanced air force. No NATO member state would even consider fighting a war without adequate air power, but that is exactly what Ukraine is currently being expected to do.

So far, the West has been arming Ukraine to survive. Putin will not end the invasion until he becomes convinced that Western leaders are determined to arm Ukraine for victory. Ukraine’s military requirements are well known. All that is missing is the requisite political will to act. This means providing fighter jets, long-range missiles, armor, and artillery in large quantities along with dramatically enhanced drone and electronic warfare capabilities.

By supplying Ukraine with sufficient military aid, the West could finally oblige Putin to rethink the current war while also creating a powerful deterrence force capable of preventing further Russian aggression. Anything less will merely create a pause in hostilities that Putin will use to rearm and prepare for the next phase of his war against the West. The price of stopping Russia in Ukraine is high, but it will be dwarfed by the costs of a new authoritarian world order if Putin’s invasion is allowed to succeed."---
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/uk...es-defeat/

And what about the 6.8 million Ukrainian refugees? Do those 6.8 million also want to sacrifice their lives?Do you really think Putin wouldn't? If so, you have far more faith in Putin than I do.

What about them? They made their choice and left. And they all support Zelensky fighting the war for their homeland. Most of them are old people, disabled, women, and children anyway. Putin would never nuke them with all the NATO nations at his doorstep. That's the advantage of NATO which Trump hates--it effectively keeps the communist nations in check.

It's been far less than Zelenskyy has asked for, including withholding weapons and aircraft capable of striking within Russia.

So you complain about us helping Ukraine in the war, and then complain we aren't helping enough. Sounds like you have no clue on this issue. Come back when you have a consistent point you can argue for.

[Syne]

If you knew history, you'd know that defense alliances occur AFTER a war. The US didn't get into WWII until Pearl Harbor and didn't form/join NATO until after WWII.

As you cite, Putin "can also call upon huge untapped reserves of manpower to replenish the depleted ranks of his army." Notice it also cites "Western fears of escalation." Not only from the US. Supplying Ukraine with the ability to strike Russia is a sure way to prompt escalation. What will stop the war and avoid escalation is the US having a vested interest in Ukraine's security... with Trump's rare minerals deal. Then the aggressor on a US interest would be Russia... not the US arming an aggressor against Russia. With proper incentive, Putin can back down (keeping Crimea, and likely Donbas) while saving face. Zelenskyy can also take credit for forging such a security alliance with the US. Only a moron doesn't recognize that as a win win.

You're options are either a) countless more dying in a continuing stalemate, b) arming Ukraine to strike Russia and Putin escalating to devastating consequences, or c) a deal to end the war and secure Ukraine. C also allows for the possibility of Ukraine joining the EU for added security partners, without inciting Putin with more NATO (possible direct US conflict) talk. It also allows the return of the 6.8 million refugees.

Again, it's a hilariously bizarre flip flop that leftists have become such war hawks.

The whole pretense to Putin's invasion was to keep Ukraine from joining NATO... which literally means there is no current threat from NATO. Nothing Putin would do to Ukraine would obligate the US to act directly. Now, it would be in Europe's interest to... but Europe has no formidable military. Trump doesn't hate NATO, except where member countries are not spending enough on their own militaries to be a deterrent... like against Putin. And again, you have some strange, misplaced faith in what Putin won't do.

No, I said Zelenskyy whined about us not helping enough. For the love of god, learn to read.

I've repeated explained how we cannot help more, as that could only either prolong or escalate the war. For some odd reason, leftists have zero interest in peace. I guess it's schadenfreude for them.

[Magical Realist]

If you knew history, you'd know that defense alliances occur AFTER a war. The US didn't get into WWII until Pearl Harbor and didn't form/join NATO until after WWII.

Well isn't that a big fat strawman. All you claimed is that history is not filled with cases of nations relying on other nations to help defend them in wars. Whether it was before a war or after is irrelevant. WWII and NATO are clear examples of alliances between nations to defend each other. And then of course there was WWI. Do learn some history:

"The Allies or the Entente was an international military coalition of countries led by France, the United Kingdom, Russia, the United States, Italy, and Japan against the Central Powers of Germany, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, and Bulgaria in World War I (1914–1918).

By the end of the first decade of the 20th century, the major European powers were divided between the Triple Entente and the Triple Alliance. The Triple Entente was made up of the United Kingdom, France, and Russia. The Triple Alliance was originally composed of Germany, Austria–Hungary, and Italy, but Italy remained neutral in 1914. As the war progressed, each coalition added new members. Japan joined the Entente in 1914 and, despite proclaiming its neutrality at the beginning of the war, Italy also joined the Entente in 1915. The term "Allies" became more widely used than "Entente",[citation needed] although the United Kingdom, France, Russia, and Italy were also referred to as the Quadruple Entente and, together with Japan, as the Quintuple Entente.[1][2] The colonies administered by the countries that fought for the Allies were also part of the Entente powers such as American Philippines, Belgian Congo, British India, French Algeria, and Japanese Korea.

The United States joined near the end of the war in 1917 (the same year in which Russia withdrew from the conflict) as an "associated power" rather than an official ally. Other "associated members" included Serbia, Belgium, Montenegro, Asir, Nejd and Hasa, Portugal, Romania, Hejaz, Panama, Cuba, Greece, China, Siam, Brazil, Armenia, Luxembourg, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Haiti, Liberia, and Honduras.[3] The treaties signed at the Paris Peace Conference recognized the United Kingdom, France, Italy, Japan, and the United States as "the Principal Allied and Associated Powers".---- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_I

Not only from the US. Supplying Ukraine with the ability to strike Russia is a sure way to prompt escalation. What will stop the war and avoid escalation is the US having a vested interest in Ukraine's security... with Trump's rare minerals deal.

As the article clearly shows, Russia's aggression against the West will not cease until it suffers a major defeat. And the only way that happens is nations supporting Ukraine with the needed weaponry to strike Russia. It's the only way to stop him. Unfortunately Trump is too much of a wimp to stand up to Putin. And he's basically stabbing Zelensky in the back by suddenly cutting off 3 years of America's military support and lying that he started the war. So the prospects of the war ending soon don't look good.

[Syne]

Guess what, moron, the entire context of this conversation is a country begging for help DURING a war. So you bringing up historic alliances that occurred AFTER wars are completely irrelevant. Military coalitions to fight wars are not the same as defensive alliances. Again, if only you could comprehend simple English. Now I get that you want the whole world dragged into this war, hence citing the Allies in a world war, but that doesn't apply to the current situation in Ukraine, which is purely regional. Russia poses no threat to other nations that would lead to a wartime coalition. So it should be obviously we're only talking about defensive alliances... and Ukraine is not even offering mutual defense of any other member nations.

Your article is from leftist morons: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/about/
These sudden war hawks have no idea what they're talking about. How do you imagine dealing Russia a major defeat that doesn't prompt further escalation? Again, you're trying really hard to sell us on another world war. Is it just schadenfreude? You fucking prick.

[stryder]

Although things had been cold between the Ukraine and Russia for a while since the Annexing of Crimea by Russia. I still say that the War/Special Operation was only brought into being thanks to Trump.

When Trump stated he wanted information on Hunter Biden to the Ukrainians and didn't get what he wanted, I'd assume he would of turned to Putin to try to get Ukraine to see sense (And of course plant a laptop). In other words he stoked the embers to the point of restarting the fire.

Russia would of felt embolded having the backing of the then US president to infiltrate Ukraine (As well as likely given intelligence reports that might of came from different countries originally and probably found a hardcopy being pulped in a Mar-a-Largo Toilet.) and that would of likely allowed them to setup the various preliminary attacks that were done when they first ventured across the border as a military force (Such as the hacker attacks)

Thats why I do not trust Trump, not one bit. He shouldn't be trusted by any NATO members or other allies for that reason.