(1) the Kh-22 cruise missile (at least in its earlier variants) first rolled out in the 1962 Soviet Union, was rather crude and said to be notoriously inaccurate. So the Soviets often put nuclear warheads on them, so it wouldn't matter as much if they hit half a mile away from the intended target. There are later upgraded versions with improved guidance systems, but Russia is said to be running low on its best precision strike weapons. So they may be resorting to old junk weapons that they inherited from the USSR and still had in storage.
(2) it's hard to see what Russia would gain from knowingly attacking a crowded shopping mall. It wouldn't gain them any military advantage and it would just harden the Ukrainians and make them even more determined to resist (if that's possible at this point).
(3) and Russia has been plagued by multiple failures in this Ukraine war, probably the worst of which was the intelligence failure. Putin seems to have thought of Ukraine as essentially a piece of Russia that was separated from the motherland in 1990 by a quirk of history. And his intelligence agencies seem to have been assuring him not only that the Ukrainian army was weak and incapable of fighting, but also that much of the Ukrainian people (and a majority in Ukraine's east) would welcome the Russians as liberators. So the stout resistance of the Ukrainian army and the fact that even the Russian speaking civilians in Ukraine's east actively opposed the invasion must have come as a shock. Far from blitzing in almost bloodlessly and taking kyiv in 3 days, the Russians found themselves forced to fight fiercely for every centimeter.
So if Russian intelligence was that appallingly bad, it isn't a stretch to think that they didn't know this building complex on their satellite photo was a shopping mall. Maybe they thought that it was an arms factory or something worth attacking.
KorneeJun 29, 2022 05:02 AM (This post was last modified: Jun 29, 2022 05:04 AM by Kornee.)
(Jun 29, 2022 04:03 AM)Yazata Wrote: ...It might have been a mistake. I say this because
(1) the Kh-22 cruise missile (at least in its earlier variants) first rolled out in the 1962 Soviet Union, was rather crude and said to be notoriously inaccurate. So the Soviets often put nuclear warheads on them, so it wouldn't matter as much if they hit half a mile away from the intended target. There are later upgraded versions with improved guidance systems, but Russia is said to be running low on its best precision strike weapons. So they may be resorting to old junk weapons that they inherited from the USSR and still had in storage.
(2) it's hard to see what Russia would gain from knowingly attacking a crowded shopping mall. It wouldn't gain them any military advantage and it would just harden the Ukrainians and make them even more determined to resist (if that's possible at this point).
(3) and Russia has been plagued by multiple failures in this Ukraine war, probably the worst of which was the intelligence failure. Putin seems to have thought of Ukraine as essentially a piece of Russia that was separated from the motherland in 1990 by a quirk of history. And his intelligence agencies seem to have been assuring him not only that the Ukrainian army was weak and incapable of fighting, but also that much of the Ukrainian people (and a majority in Ukraine's east) would welcome the Russians as liberators. So the stout resistance of the Ukrainian army and the fact that even the Russian speaking civilians in Ukraine's east actively opposed the invasion must have come as a shock. Far from blitzing in almost bloodlessly and taking kyiv in 3 days, the Russians found themselves forced to fight fiercely for every centimeter.
So if Russian intelligence was that appallingly bad, it isn't a stretch to think that they didn't know this building complex on their satellite photo was a shopping mall. Maybe they thought that it was an arms factory or something worth attacking.
Of course one can claim the evil Putin warmonger regime has supplied a photoshopsky'd false satellite image. If you want. Track record so far suggests it's just as article says it is.
Therefore - more comedy -> drama actor Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelenskyy regime lies. Probably conveniently scripted from some place in Washington DC.
(Jun 29, 2022 12:33 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote:
(Jun 28, 2022 06:20 AM)Kornee Wrote: I have plenty of times referred to a Wikispooks article absolutely NAILING the true culprits behind 9-11, but it inevitably is just water off a duck's back. Blank stares response. The all too effective power of Madison Avenue advertising/brain-washing.
in your own words
in simple language
who do you think committed the 9/11 attacks ?
(have a 95% probability that you wont answer)
Very poor memory? I have previously posted multiple times both here at SV and over at SF. You never bothered to read once? Yet again: https://www.wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it
How handy for you - no need to even study the contents! Which given your brainwashed state of mind, I'm 99.9% sure you won't. Directive 4 will set in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr3t1uZNbKo
(1) the Kh-22 cruise missile (at least in its earlier variants) first rolled out in the 1962 Soviet Union, was rather crude and said to be notoriously inaccurate. So the Soviets often put nuclear warheads on them, so it wouldn't matter as much if they hit half a mile away from the intended target. There are later upgraded versions with improved guidance systems, but Russia is said to be running low on its best precision strike weapons. So they may be resorting to old junk weapons that they inherited from the USSR and still had in storage.
(2) it's hard to see what Russia would gain from knowingly attacking a crowded shopping mall. It wouldn't gain them any military advantage and it would just harden the Ukrainians and make them even more determined to resist (if that's possible at this point).
(3) and Russia has been plagued by multiple failures in this Ukraine war, probably the worst of which was the intelligence failure. Putin seems to have thought of Ukraine as essentially a piece of Russia that was separated from the motherland in 1990 by a quirk of history. And his intelligence agencies seem to have been assuring him not only that the Ukrainian army was weak and incapable of fighting, but also that much of the Ukrainian people (and a majority in Ukraine's east) would welcome the Russians as liberators. So the stout resistance of the Ukrainian army and the fact that even the Russian speaking civilians in Ukraine's east actively opposed the invasion must have come as a shock. Far from blitzing in almost bloodlessly and taking kyiv in 3 days, the Russians found themselves forced to fight fiercely for every centimeter.
So if Russian intelligence was that appallingly bad, it isn't a stretch to think that they didn't know this building complex on their satellite photo was a shopping mall. Maybe they thought that it was an arms factory or something worth attacking.
who would tell putin how corrupt & hopeless his own military is ?
i think the Russian military systematically destroy intelligence in their recruits & conscripts.
i expect the Russian military have been run like a political party for the last 40 years instead of a military.
2 missiles both hit the same target ?
the train station missile attack
the other shopping mall missile attacks
the theater bombing
what did this attack do on the shopping mall ?
it wiped out electronics goods cell phones computers and food supplys
killed and injured civilians who might otherwise resist their invasion
middle class highly educated technical soldiers are defining a difference in the technology war
capitalist shopping mall
communist missile etc etc
if they were not bombing entire citys flat then i might believe its possible it was not intentional
but i believe its part of their consistent strategy
(Jun 29, 2022 05:40 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote: ....who would tell putin how corrupt & hopeless his own military is ?
i think the Russian military systematically destroy intelligence in their recruits & conscripts.
i expect the Russian military have been run like a political party for the last 40 years instead of a military.
2 missiles both hit the same target ?
the train station missile attack
the other shopping mall missile attacks
the theater bombing
what did this attack do on the shopping mall ?
it wiped out electronics goods cell phones computers and food supplys
killed and injured civilians who might otherwise resist their invasion
middle class highly educated technical soldiers are defining a difference in the technology war
capitalist shopping mall
communist missile etc etc
if they were not bombing entire citys flat then i might believe its possible it was not intentional
but i believe its part of their consistent strategy
Not saying it’s an accident, poor planning or deliberate but bad things happen in war and whether this current one would be exempt from such occurrence is debatable. Watch this movie on Netflix and learn how it materializes. School bombing and war have a history.
KorneeJun 29, 2022 03:07 PM (This post was last modified: Jun 29, 2022 03:15 PM by Kornee.)
It's now clear from below balanced and relatively up to date article that a wayward missile did strike very near, but not directly on, the Amstor shopping mall in Kremenchuk. The blast, and maybe ensuing fire, causing considerable loss of life: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/06/29/...ence-shows
So Moscow did evidently lie about mall damage being due to explosions of secretly stored Western supplied munitions at the nearby machine-shop complex.
The charge of deliberately targeting particularly vulnerable civilians going about their normal shopping is though war propaganda nonsense.
As to what was stored at the obviously intended nearby machine-shop complex + rail-link target, remains to be unambiguously determined.
Perhaps an intelligence failure by the Russians, but no-one will intentionally waste expensive armaments on a low value workshop. Less still generate outrage by deliberately targeting civilians.
(Jun 29, 2022 03:07 PM)Kornee Wrote: The charge of deliberately targeting particularly vulnerable civilians going about their normal shopping is though war propaganda nonsense.
One instrument of warfare that never gets hit is the Propaganda Machine.
KorneeJun 29, 2022 03:47 PM (This post was last modified: Jun 29, 2022 04:23 PM by Kornee.)
(Jun 29, 2022 03:32 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote:
(Jun 29, 2022 03:07 PM)Kornee Wrote: The charge of deliberately targeting particularly vulnerable civilians going about their normal shopping is though war propaganda nonsense.
One instrument of warfare that never gets hit is the Propaganda Machine.
Indeed. Truth - always the first casualty of war.
Accused of rabid antisemitism by one SV poster in particular - yet here I am actually endorsing the analysis of this Jerusalem Post article: https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-710683
YazataJun 29, 2022 06:05 PM (This post was last modified: Jun 30, 2022 12:41 AM by Yazata.)
The UK Defense ministry seems to think that it's possible that the missile attack on the shopping mall was actually intended to strike a nearby infrastructure target. They note that Russian long-range strikes are often notoriously inaccurate and result in civilian casualties.
They say, "Russia's shortage of more modern precision strike weapons and the professional shortcomings of their targeting planners will highly likely result in further civilian casualties."
Jun 29, 2022 04:03 AM
(This post was last modified: Jun 29, 2022 04:17 AM by Yazata.)
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