Russian Ukraine Invasion

[Syne]

It's conceivable that there might be more pressure on Putin from within his government and military to accept the kind of deal that Trump is offering him. But I think that it's more likely that the Russians will be thinking about what they can do to retaliate.

Yeah, that does sound more likely.

The attack on Putin's compound (I have no way of knowing if he was actually there at the time) seems a lot more likely to be true after the attack on Moscow's power grid just a day later.

Trump seemed to have believed it yesterday and I believe that he was not happy at all, particularly when it happened while Zelensky as visiting him. That comes too close to looking to Putin like Trump and Zelensky were plotting together to kill him. Which might arguably have been Zelensky's intention, in hopes of scuttling Trump's peace effort by making Putin back out entirely.

Probably a stupid move by Zelenskyy (or rogue Ukrainian soldiers). I know they, and Europe, would love to draw the US into combat, but I think Putin is too savvy to fall for that. More likely he'll up his missile strikes on Kyiv... if only to prove that Ukraine has no leverage to bargain with.

[stryder]

It's conceivable that there might be more pressure on Putin from within his government and military to accept the kind of deal that Trump is offering him. But I think that it's more likely that the Russians will be thinking about what they can do to retaliate.

Yeah, that does sound more likely.

The attack on Putin's compound (I have no way of knowing if he was actually there at the time) seems a lot more likely to be true after the attack on Moscow's power grid just a day later.

Trump seemed to have believed it yesterday and I believe that he was not happy at all, particularly when it happened while Zelensky as visiting him. That comes too close to looking to Putin like Trump and Zelensky were plotting together to kill him. Which might arguably have been Zelensky's intention, in hopes of scuttling Trump's peace effort by making Putin back out entirely.

Probably a stupid move by Zelenskyy (or rogue Ukrainian soldiers). I know they, and Europe, would love to draw the US into combat, but I think Putin is too savvy to fall for that. More likely he'll up his missile strikes on Kyiv... if only to prove that Ukraine has no leverage to bargain with.

If any attack happened on Putins house it was probably some of his own stoking the fire(seizing power from Putin will only be possible while a war continues so there is someone else to blame). Taking Putin out hasn't been something aimed at mainly due to it shutting down any form of diplomacy should it happen. In fact I would suggest that if Ukraine decided to do an attack and let slip to US intelligence services of their intention, Putin would likely be told by Trump about the pending attack. (After all Trump only tolerates people and wouldn't want to switch out to someone he doesn't like for communicating with.)

[confused2]

I'd expect an attack on Moscow to be a propaganda win for Putin.

[stryder]

I'd expect an attack on Moscow to be a propaganda win for Putin.

I'm sure there is some Statecraft Etiquette which suggests not to attack those in command if you are attempting to deal with them.


"statecraft etiquette prohibiting attack on the leader of the opposing country" (Feel free to check the AI magic happen when you do a search)

if you going to table a peace treaty/deal the first rule to negotiations (by the host) is to not have either side assassinate one another otherwise it makes the negotiation a bit difficult. Thus anyone attempting an assassination would be seen the bad guy, or in this particular case the one making the unverified claim is likely blowing smoke to derail any such negotiation further.

I guess Putin doesn't want to be seen more of a pariah by just throwing the peace deal in peoples faces, instead he's going for subterfuge with tales of an assassination attempt to then lay claim why he won't do a peace deal.

[C C]

[...] The entire Moscow metropolitan area (Moscow federal city and the surrounding administratively separate Moscow oblast) has about 21 million people and is the largest in Europe.

Over the years, Russians have been magnifying their receptivity to being targets by deserting the country's vast flyover country in droves to concentrate ever more in dense population areas.

"Russians are abandoning smaller towns and rural areas due to factors like job losses, poor living conditions, lack of infrastructure, and limited access to services. Many young people migrate to cities for better opportunities, leading to significant depopulation in these regions."

[confused2]

Yazata's post
https://www.scivillage.com/thread-11744-...l#pid80034

Looking at the pic of the tower block .. I'm no good at it but the closest I can get to an image search suggests..

"Retrieving full-size images -- media. fields=url points to resized version? * taper October 11, 2021, 7:54pm "

The Moscow Times doesn't seem to have heard of a blackout in Moscow

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/12/3...say-a91592

Edit .. Many UK papers are reporting a blackout in Mosow .. but not the BBC .. I have more faith in Yazata than the BBC so I'm going with it being true.

[C C]

[...] The Moscow Times doesn't seem to have heard of a blackout in Moscow

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/12/3...say-a91592

Hmm. MT "moved its main editors to Amsterdam", so probably a legit presentation of victimhood below. (Only in Soviet regime days could one really consider the Kremlin erecting a reverse-psychology newspaper prop, or taking over one for such "complex propaganda strategy" purposes). Few signs in the current headlines of robustly undermining the Putin narrative, apart from stuff like "No signs of Ukrainian drone attack on Putin residence". But not unexpected in a random sampling, and in the end they do only claim to be "unbiased", not pushing back with a counter-agenda.  

We are facing unprecedented challenges. Russia's Prosecutor General's Office has designated The Moscow Times as an "undesirable" organization, criminalizing our work and putting our staff at risk of prosecution. This follows our earlier unjust labeling as a "foreign agent."

These actions are direct attempts to silence independent journalism in Russia. The authorities claim our work "discredits the decisions of the Russian leadership." We see things differently: we strive to provide accurate, unbiased reporting on Russia.

We, the journalists of The Moscow Times, refuse to be silenced. But to continue our work, we need your help.

[Syne]

If any attack happened on Putins house it was probably some of his own stoking the fire(seizing power from Putin will only be possible while a war continues so there is someone else to blame).  Taking Putin out hasn't been something aimed at mainly due to it shutting down any form of diplomacy should it happen.  In fact I would suggest that if Ukraine decided to do an attack and let slip to US intelligence services of their intention, Putin would likely be told by Trump about the pending attack.  (After all Trump only tolerates people and wouldn't want to switch out to someone he doesn't like for communicating with.)

It would only stoke the fire of Russians backing Putin's war on Ukraine. There is no chance at seizing power from Putin by blaming Ukraine. Someone taking out Putin would likely escalate the war, with someone more ruthless... but with more Russian solidarity.

Again, why does it all fall on the US? European countries could already have assets in Russia that would be better suited to provide them with intel on a possible assassination. As usual, Europeans like to talk big... unless in involves getting their own hands dirty or risking their own troops.

9_9

[stryder]

Again, why does it all fall on the US? European countries could already have assets in Russia that would be better suited to provide them with intel on a possible assassination. As usual, Europeans like to talk big... unless in involves getting their own hands dirty or risking their own troops.

9_9

I think got your wires crossed with what was being said. Let me be clear, I'm not saying it's up to the US at all.

What I'm actually saying is that I wouldn't currently trust US intelligence as it's compromised. (From the top)

I'm not saying it's what US personnel want, I'm not saying it's what every American wants.

What I am saying however is that certain people within echelons of power want to control outcomes for their deals or whatever pipe dream they have over global domination.

Thanks to them, The intelligence services are burned.

[Syne]

Ah, more of your "Trump is Putin's puppet" fantasies. Apparently you bought into the whole Russia hoax, that has been completely debunked as a Democrat propaganda, soup to nuts.

9_9