Trump falsely accuses Ukraine of starting the war

Here's the whole disasterous meeting of Zelensky with Trump and Vance. Trump and Vance trying to beat Zelensky down to grovel before them. He wouldn't do it. Trump and Vance won't let him get a word in edgewise. Pathetic. No deal is made as a result. That's "The Art of the Deal" folks..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_kTNIYsFnQ

Zelenskyy has zero leverage to be acting like that. He doesn't seem to realize that the old leftist that you could play on his sympathies is gone. Hard reality is in charge now.

(Mar 1, 2025 02:05 AM)Syne Wrote: Zelenskyy has zero leverage to be acting like that. He doesn't seem to realize that the old leftist that you could play on his sympathies is gone. Hard reality is in charge now.

"The further Right(Extremist) you go, the more Left everyone else is."
"When you think you are Right, you are always someones Left."

Quote:Zelenskyy has zero leverage to be acting like that.

If Trump were a trustworthy ally then he would have leverage .. but he isn't trustworthy and he may not even be an ally. Trump has taken the US out of the fight for Ukraine but [Elon?] would still like $500B worth of minerals. Far from looking like a good deal - it hardly even makes sense.

(Feb 28, 2025 09:42 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: Here's the whole disasterous meeting of Zelensky with Trump and Vance. Trump and Vance trying to beat Zelensky down to grovel before them. He wouldn't do it. Trump and Vance won't let him get a word in edgewise. Pathetic. No deal is made as a result. That's "The Art of the Deal" folks..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_kTNIYsFnQ

That's "Life Imitating Art" folks…

Well, at least he had a suit. 

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/-wgkzyG71Tg

I might have known this once and forgotten. The star of 'Servant of the People' looks very like Zelensky because it is (him).

(Mar 1, 2025 07:08 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: That's "Life Imitating Art" folks…

Well, at least he had a suit. 

https://youtu.be/-wgkzyG71Tg?si=qkwVYg4Wh-KAC19S

Wait. So they showed the Ukrainians a TV show about a nobody becoming president... and then they elected him president?

Must not take much work to propagandize those people.

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(Mar 1, 2025 09:34 AM)stryder Wrote:

(Mar 1, 2025 02:05 AM)Syne Wrote: Zelenskyy has zero leverage to be acting like that. He doesn't seem to realize that the old leftist that you could play on his sympathies is gone. Hard reality is in charge now.

"The further Right(Extremist) you go, the more Left everyone else is."
"When you think you are Right, you are always someones Left."

All data says the right in the US has been stable for decades. It's the left that is lurching wildly leftward.
You've been duped by the Overton window portrayed by leftist media.

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(Mar 1, 2025 12:16 PM)confused2 Wrote:

Quote:Zelenskyy has zero leverage to be acting like that.

If Trump were a trustworthy ally then he would have leverage .. but he isn't trustworthy and he may not even be an ally. Trump has taken the US out of the fight for Ukraine but [Elon?] would still like $500B worth of minerals. Far from looking like a good deal - it hardly even makes sense.

Did Zelenskyy have leverage with Biden as an ally? If so, it only led to a war with no end in sight.
And Trump should just commit US military, resources, and a larger threat of war out of pure charity?
Actual leverage would have been a minerals deal that gave the US a vested interest in Ukraine and its security.

(Mar 1, 2025 11:58 PM)Syne Wrote: All data says the right in the US has been stable for decades. It's the left that is lurching wildly leftward.
You've been duped by the Overton window portrayed by leftist media.

I'm pretty sure the Overton window died when social media was born.

Now it's all about Critical Mass (wikipedia.org), how fast you can accumilate it, what ideology has been projected to it and whether you are the shot caller to it.

Thats why it's very dangerous for the number of far-right extreme nuts that are now congregating together on the synergised social media platforms currently running under the Trump banner.

The only true way to defeat the misuse and manipulation (a la Cambridge Analytica et al) is to start teaching Sociodynamics in Schools to kids, so they can beat the brainwashing to the punchline.

Like I said, you've been duped.

(Mar 2, 2025 12:49 AM)Syne Wrote: Like I said, you've been duped.

Nope, you're just not getting it.