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Alpha male or not Alpha male..

#51
Secular Sanity Offline
(Aug 15, 2018 07:34 PM)Syne Wrote: Contrary to you, I'm not seeking validation here...quite the opposite in fact.
It's none of my concern if objective facts bore you...but that might be why you have trouble feeling validated by men.

I'm not seeking validation. Let it go, dumb ass.

No, they're partying. If men, not boys, can't keep up with the women, that's their problem. They aren't doing their homework. They're not studying. Maybe it's time for them to stay home and take care of the kids. Oh, yeah! Barefoot and in the kitchen with jeans and a white T-shirt. Oh, and a man-bun.

A more interesting question is why have you been presenting Peterson’s arguments as if they were your own? Some of the things you’ve said are almost word for word.
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#52
Syne Offline
(Aug 15, 2018 08:13 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote:
(Aug 15, 2018 07:34 PM)Syne Wrote: Contrary to you, I'm not seeking validation here...quite the opposite in fact.
It's none of my concern if objective facts bore you...but that might be why you have trouble feeling validated by men.

I'm not seeking validation.  Let it go, dumb ass.
(Aug 15, 2018 05:33 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: You're really starting to bore me.
If you think telling me I bore you means anything to me, then yes, you are seeking validation.
But "nice guys" are boring, so maybe you can figure out what traits you're attracted to by process of elimination.
Quote:No, they're partying.  If men, not boys, can't keep up with the women, that's their problem. They aren't doing their homework. They're not studying. Maybe it's time for them to stay home and take care of the kids.  Oh, yeah!  Barefoot and in the kitchen with jeans and a white T-shirt.  Oh, and a man-bun.  
Maybe your son(s). That's on you.
Since men still dominate the highest paying industries, it doesn't look like they have any problem keeping up.
And we'd see how well women could REALLY keep up if the government didn't support their bad choices in life.
Quote:A more interesting question is why have you been presenting Peterson’s arguments as if they were your own?  Some of the things you’ve said are almost word for word.
Maybe you really don't know how learning works, despite all your misandrist ranting about boys in school. When you learn something you agree with, it becomes part of you...integrated into your worldview. But most of what Peterson says is stuff I already knew, and very little of what I've written about alpha men is from Peterson. I offered Ben a few links that I do read, but he never took me up on it.

Here's two simple questions you should be able to answer unequivocally:
Are humans a highly social species?
Do humans compete for resource, mates, etc.?

If so, then alpha men and women are a natural and inevitable consequence. No social hierarchy exists without a top, and the more complex the society the more sub-hierarchies exist. Your denial is a denial of objective reality...the same emotionally-driven thinking that makes you an unsuitable friend for a man, even without any sexual appeal.
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#53
confused2 Offline
Syne Wrote:...the same emotionally-driven thinking that makes you an unsuitable friend for a man, even without any sexual appeal.
IMHO that is the wrong side of the line of what is acceptable to post on the Internet. Whatever your beliefs or background there is no excuse for that.
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#54
Syne Offline
(Aug 16, 2018 12:37 AM)confused2 Wrote:
Syne Wrote:...the same emotionally-driven thinking that makes you an unsuitable friend for a man, even without any sexual appeal.
IMHO that is the wrong side of the line of what is acceptable to post on the Internet. Whatever your beliefs or background there is no excuse for that.

Maybe, if you quote it out of context, as you've done. What I actually wrote was:

Syne Wrote:Your denial is a denial of objective reality...the same emotionally-driven thinking that makes you an unsuitable friend for a man, even without any sexual appeal.

So now you can make the argument why you think a man should respect you as a friend if you outright deny objective reality. And knock off this intellectually dishonest quoting things out of context.

At the very least, it proves the point that men can't treat women as equals, and must employ emotional kid gloves.
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#55
confused2 Offline
Syne Wrote:At the very least, it proves the point that men can't treat women as equals, and must employ emotional kid gloves.
Actually I was trying to be nice ('kid gloves') to you.
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#56
Syne Offline
(Aug 16, 2018 01:26 AM)confused2 Wrote:
Syne Wrote:At the very least, it proves the point that men can't treat women as equals, and must employ emotional kid gloves.
Actually I was trying to be nice ('kid gloves') to you.

I don't require kid gloves. If you can make a case, with the entire context, do so.
So tell us, why does denying objective fact without any argument deserve respect?
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#57
Secular Sanity Offline
(Aug 15, 2018 11:39 PM)Syne Wrote: In Nietzsche's view, friendship should be casual and playful as well as combative and aggravating, as a means to becoming the ubermensch. As friends, women cannot challenge a man in way that improves him. There's just no incentive or pressure. Where a woman can consider a man a friend, on a par with the sort of competitive friendships they have with other women, a man cannot do so without a physical dislike for a woman. Women cannot preserve friendships with men. Only a man can do that. 

And god forbid a man treat a woman as he does other men. Teasing you about your weight, muffin top, saggy tits, wrinkles, crying, etc.? Men to this to other men to strengthen them. But men must treat all women with emotional kid gloves.

Actually, Syne, this is precisely why you bore me.  You are incapable of the very thing that you are proclaiming.  You’re attempting to put lipstick on a pig. When females display this type of behavior, they’re jealous and catty.  Men make fun of each other because they’re uncomfortable with intimacy.

I’ve already told you that I’m not seeking reassurance.  I’d have a Facebook account, if I was seeking 'likes'.  The thing is, though, Syne, C2 is right.  You’re not capable of friendship and we do have to treat you with kid gloves.

In your friend you should possess your best enemy, Nietzsche writes.

You haven’t been able to do this as far as I can tell. You swing wild assumptions like a little girl—like a catty little bitch.  I think you may even be rushing in with your eyes closed hoping to land a punch.

Friendship is rare and unique.  A true friend knows his opponent and recognizes his unique stance.  

Now, I don’t want to give him too much credit, but I’ve seen Ben come in with a few good jabs here and there.  However, his bluffing leaves something to be desired.  

What you’re describing are childhood taunts.  Simply standing toe to toe and slugging each other isn’t going to toughen you up.  There’s some fancy footwork involved, but so far, I’ve only seen you fly like a butterfly. You’re not going to score any points by simply dancing around your opponent.

(Aug 16, 2018 12:04 AM)Syne Wrote: But most of what Peterson says is stuff I already knew.

Hmm…why don’t believe you?  Theodore Roosevelt said it best when he said that the men who take part in these fights are hard as nails, and it is not worthwhile to feel sentimental about their receiving punishment which as a matter of fact they do not mind. Of course, the men who look on ought to be able to stand up with gloves, or without them, themselves; I have scant use for the type of sportsmanship which consists merely in looking on at the feats of someone else.

Let me know when you’re ready to tackle your emotionally-driven drivel. We could start with your man crush, if you’d like.
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#58
Syne Offline
(Aug 16, 2018 02:18 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote:
(Aug 15, 2018 11:39 PM)Syne Wrote: In Nietzsche's view, friendship should be casual and playful as well as combative and aggravating, as a means to becoming the ubermensch. As friends, women cannot challenge a man in way that improves him. There's just no incentive or pressure. Where a woman can consider a man a friend, on a par with the sort of competitive friendships they have with other women, a man cannot do so without a physical dislike for a woman. Women cannot preserve friendships with men. Only a man can do that. 

And god forbid a man treat a woman as he does other men. Teasing you about your weight, muffin top, saggy tits, wrinkles, crying, etc.? Men to this to other men to strengthen them. But men must treat all women with emotional kid gloves.

Actually, Syne, this is precisely why you bore me.  You are incapable of the very thing that you are proclaiming.  You’re attempting to put lipstick on a pig. When females display this type of behavior, they’re jealous and catty.  Men make fun of each other because they’re uncomfortable with intimacy.
Men do not share the same concern over social reputation that women do, so yes, women know that their remarks are more cutting and men know that theirs make other men more resilient. You're far too myopic if you think men have the same need for intimacy as women do. Men bond by encouraging each other to become Nietzsche's ubermensch...better, more self-actualized men. Only men who lacked a male role model or father figure growing up have the misguided notion that female ideals apply to them.

And again, if I bore you, quit reading.
Quote:I’ve already told you that I’m not seeking reassurance.  I’d have a Facebook account, if I was seeking 'likes'.  The thing is, though, Syne, C2 is right.  You’re not capable of friendship and we do have to treat you with kid gloves.
We both know Facebook "likes" are only the most superficial of validation, and that the validation you seek is of intellectual parity/respect.
Again, for the umpteenth time, men are perfectly capable...when the value is reciprocated. Your natural hypergamy just seems to preclude you from seeing that.
Quote:In your friend you should possess your best enemy, Nietzsche writes.

You haven’t been able to do this as far as I can tell. You swing wild assumptions like a little girl—like a catty little bitch.  I think you may even be rushing in with your eyes closed hoping to land a punch.

Friendship is rare and unique.  A true friend knows his opponent and recognizes his unique stance.  

Now, I don’t want to give him too much credit, but I’ve seen Ben come in with a few good jabs here and there.  However, his bluffing leaves something to be desired.  

What you’re describing are childhood taunts.  Simply standing toe to toe and slugging each other isn’t going to toughen you up.  There’s some fancy footwork involved, but so far, I’ve only seen you fly like a butterfly. You’re not going to score any points by simply dancing around your opponent.
So which is it? I'm catty or I have no sting? O_o
You see, being catty is defined as being hurtful. In reality, I have no intention to be either. That you would even suggest so implies that some unintentional swings did land. You should really learn to control the Freudian slips.

But the bigger issue is that you try to classify men under the paradigm of female behavior. And that's why you always fail.
And who said I ever wanted to be friends with you? O_o
You've been the one to make friendly overtures.

Actually, for men, any challenge, verbal or physical, does make them more resilient...so long as they're not already beaten down by social conditioning myths.
Quote:
(Aug 16, 2018 12:04 AM)Syne Wrote: But most of what Peterson says is stuff I already knew.

Hmm…why don’t believe you?  Theodore Roosevelt said it best when he said that the men who take part in these fights are hard as nails, and it is not worthwhile to feel sentimental about their receiving punishment which as a matter of fact they do not mind. Of course, the men who look on ought to be able to stand up with gloves, or without them, themselves; I have scant use for the type of sportsmanship which consists merely in looking on at the feats of someone else.

Let me know when you’re ready to tackle your emotionally-driven drivel. We could start with your man crush, if you’d like.
You can believe whatever you like, deary.
No man crush on Peterson, as he has a rather cowed, likely Canadian, manner. Now Ben Shapiro...



(Aug 15, 2018 11:39 PM)Syne Wrote: What's much more likely is that men don't like friends who treat them like their gay friend, emotional tampon, handyman, etc. without any real reciprocated value. The female propensity to hypergamy extends to male friends, where they expect more value than they give.
So how do you propose offering a man equal value as a friend? Any idea at all? O_o
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#59
Secular Sanity Offline
I have male friends, but I’ll admit that they’ve all tried to have sex with me, but I’m successful in my own right.  Most of my male friends want me to help them. I’m pretty handy. If I fix something for my girlfriends, they’ll usually pay me back by baking or what not.

Hypergamy has never been on my do to list. 

I highly doubt that you’ve even read any of Freud’s work, and as far as Nietzsche’s ubermensche is concerned, I highly doubt that you even understand the full extent of it.

Actually, I think that American men do have trouble with banter. They take themselves way too seriously.  In fact, the type of banter that I’m talking about is just the opposite. It’s not used to make you more resilient, it’s used to make you less arrogant—to remind you not to take yourself so seriously.  

My son has had a best friend since the first day of school.  He was hiding under his mother’s skirt.  He was so shy and scared.  My son is just the opposite.  I asked him to go over and ask the boy if they could walk into class together.  He did and they’ve been together ever since.   I love their relationship.  They’re so witty.  They come up with some good ones, but it’s always funny, and they can laugh at themselves.

I don’t think that’s something that you’re capable of.  You hold a high opinion of yourself, too high, if you ask me.  C2, he’s good at it, though. He’s funny and he’s able to laugh at himself even when things get serious.  

"We laugh at a man who, stepping out of his room at the very minute when the sun is rising, says, “It is my will that the sun shall rise”; or at him who, unable to stop a wheel, says, “I wish it to roll”; or, again, at him who, thrown in a wrestling match, says, “Here I lie, but here I wish to lie." –Nietzsche

That kind of sounds like you, doesn’t it.  Big Grin

But the laughter that Nietzsche sought was an overcoming of seriousness by the spirit of seriousness itself.
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#60
Syne Offline
(Aug 16, 2018 07:22 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: I have male friends, but I’ll admit that they’ve all tried to have sex with me, but I’m successful in my own right.  Most of my male friends want me to help them. I’m pretty handy. If I fix something for my girlfriends, they’ll usually pay me back by baking or what not.
So you're more handy than your beta male friends...who all want to sleep with you?
Thanks for making my point.
Quote:Hypergamy has never been on my do to list. 
Of course not...it's in your DNA.
Quote:I highly doubt that you’ve even read any of Freud’s work, and as far as Nietzsche’s ubermensche is concerned, I highly doubt that you even understand the full extent of it.
It's telling how you never even try to support such statements. Probably just projection.
I already told that Nietzsche's view on becoming the ubermensch was self-actualization. You can read up on it here: https://www.brainpickings.org/2015/10/15...e-spirits/
Do you need me to explain parapraxis to you as well?
Quote:Actually, I think that American men do have trouble with banter. They take themselves way too seriously.  In fact, the type of banter that I’m talking about is just the opposite. It’s not used to make you more resilient, it’s used to make you less arrogant—to remind you not to take yourself so seriously.  

My son has had a best friend since the first day of school.  He was hiding under his mother’s skirt.  He was so shy and scared.  My son is just the opposite.  I asked him to go over and ask the boy if they could walk into class together.  He did and they’ve been together ever since.   I love their relationship.  They’re so witty.  They come up with some good ones, but it’s always funny, and they can laugh at themselves.

I don’t think that’s something that you’re capable of.  You hold a high opinion of yourself, too high, if you ask me.  C2, he’s good at it, though. He’s funny and he’s able to laugh at himself even when things get serious.  
It's true that most American men take themselves too seriously. Stifling social conditioning.
Resilience removes any need for ego defense.

Again, you can believe whatever you like. There's a difference between a high opinion of oneself that honestly accepts and works on any flaws, and defensiveness that tries to deny flaws.
Quote:"We laugh at a man who, stepping out of his room at the very minute when the sun is rising, says, “It is my will that the sun shall rise”; or at him who, unable to stop a wheel, says, “I wish it to roll”; or, again, at him who, thrown in a wrestling match, says, “Here I lie, but here I wish to lie." –Nietzsche

That kind of sounds like you, doesn’t it.  Big Grin

But the laughter that Nietzsche sought was an overcoming of seriousness by the spirit of seriousness itself.
You seem to have missed the point. That's about self-deception and ego-defense, not laughter itself nor seriousness.
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