[split] On Privilege

Quote:You're oblivious to the fact that YOU are the only one making assumptions like "conniving single black mothers"

That's your thesis not mine. I was parodying your view to show how stupid it is. Go back to English class and learn how language works you illiterate dolt.

(Nov 19, 2017 10:28 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:

Quote:You're oblivious to the fact that YOU are the only one making assumptions like "conniving single black mothers"

That's your thesis not mine. I was parodying your view to show how stupid it is. Go back to English class and learn how language works you illiterate dolt.

Parody is not a refute, dumbass, it's a straw man.

"2010 Census results reveal that Planned Parenthood is targeting minority neighborhoods. 79% of its surgical abortion facilities are located within walking distance of African American or Hispanic/Latino neighborhoods." - https://www.protectingblacklife.org/pp_targets/

Abortion access reduces the sense of paternal responsibility.

"Birth Control is not contraception indiscriminately and thoughtlessly practiced. It means the release and cultivation of the better racial elements in our society, and the gradual suppression, elimination and eventual extirpation of defective stocks — those human weeds which threaten the blooming of the finest flowers of American civilization." - Margret Sanger

Which in turn leaves single mothers vulnerable to poverty, prompting more leftist intervention that only further reduces paternal responsibility.

Quote:Abortion access reduces the sense of paternal responsibility.

Right..as in not being a parent at all. Everyone has the right to choose to be a parent or not. There is no moral obligation for anyone to become a parent. Access to abortion and birth control simply opens up more options to young black women. It gives them more choices, not less.

Quote:Which in turn leaves single mothers vulnerable to poverty,

LOL! You'll have to explain how abortion and so having LESS kids makes single black women more vulnerable to poverty.

(Nov 19, 2017 11:38 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:

Quote:Abortion access reduces the sense of paternal responsibility.

Right..as in not being a parent at all. Everyone has the right to choose to be a parent or not. There is no moral obligation for anyone to become a parent. Access to abortion and birth control simply opens up more options to young black women. It gives them more choices, not less.

Because women have that choice (with minority communities heavily targeted) men feel there should be a choice in their obligation as well. After all, if a woman unilaterally decides to have a child (men don't have an equal right to choose), that's her problem considering the availability of other options. This incentivizes absentee fathers, since there is no longer a social stigma to counteract the financial burden he would face.

Without the father, welfare often becomes the only choice.

Quote:

Quote:Which in turn leaves single mothers vulnerable to poverty,

LOL! You'll have to explain how abortion and so having LESS kids makes single black women more vulnerable to poverty.

Lack of paternal financial support, due to decreased sense of obligation, leads to poverty. Not your ignorant straw man. Sure, it would be better if they chose not to have children, but abortion means they forgo children, not irresponsible sexual/contraceptive behavior.

"Welfare recipients generally have abortions at a higher rate than other women: In New Jersey, in the quarter ending December 1991, the abortion rate for the welfare population was 27 per 1,000 compared with 4 per 1,000 for all New Jersey women of child-bearing age. And although the abortion rate in New Jersey, and nationwide, declined between 1991 and 1996, the abortion rate among New Jersey's welfare recipients rose during the same period." - http://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/08/us/rep...ected.html

Quote:Because women have that choice (with minority communities heavily targeted) men feel there should be a choice in their obligation as well.

Most males who have sex with single young women aren't thinking parenthood, that's for sure. And since their only role in the conception process is fucking, they don't get to make the choice of carrying it to term. That's always the women's choice, since it is her body that will be bearing it for nine months and then painfully giving it birth. The choice of abortion allows her an option to avoid poverty and the obligations of parenthood, which most unwed mothers aren't mature enough to handle. It is a freedom she would not normally have.

Quote:Lack of paternal financial support, due to decreased sense of obligation, leads to poverty. Not your ignorant straw man. Sure, it would be better if they chose not to have children, but abortion means they forgo children, not irresponsible sexual/contraceptive behavior.

Actually having children out of wedlock leads to poverty, especially for young black women. So abortion and contraception and counseling, which is what PP makes available to them, work to keep them out of increasing poverty and the problems associated with raising children. This is a self-evident fact that is indisputable. Again...and for the last time....abortion and contraception LESSEN poverty, and don't increase it.
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"For decades Planned Parenthood and other reproductive-health providers have—with support from programs such as Medicaid and Title X, the nation’s only program solely focused on making family planning available to all—prevented or provided care for millions of unintended pregnancies, unintended births, abortions, sexually transmitted infections, and cervical cancer.

If that’s not enough—clearly, it’s not—the economic benefits of these programs are what should earn them high praise from conservatives. In a Guttmacher Institute study of women seeking contraceptive care at publicly funded clinics, 63 percent of women reported birth control had allowed them to take better care of themselves or their families, and 56 percent said it allowed them to take care of themselves financially. Half reported that it helped them stay in school and complete their education and that it helped them get or keep a job and advance their careers. In a recent poll, 72 percent of Pennsylvania voters said a woman's ability to control the timing and size of her family impacts her financial stability, and 62 percent believed that laws that made abortion harder to access can negatively impact a woman's financial security. Polls of voters in New York and Virginia showed similar results."----https://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc...ts/405922/

(Nov 20, 2017 02:02 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:

Quote:Because women have that choice (with minority communities heavily targeted) men feel there should be a choice in their obligation as well.

Most males who have sex with teen girls aren't thinking parenthood, that's for sure. And since their only role in the conception process is fucking, they don't get to make the choice of carrying it to term. That's always the women's choice, since it is her body that will be bearing it for nine months and then painfully giving it birth. The choice of abortion allows her an option to avoid poverty and the obligations of parenthood, which most unwed mothers aren't mature enough to handle. It is a freedom she would not normally have.

Who said anything about "teen girls"? O_o

How does any of that refute anything I said? O_o

Quote:

Quote:Lack of paternal financial support, due to decreased sense of obligation, leads to poverty. Not your ignorant straw man. Sure, it would be better if they chose not to have children, but abortion means they forgo children, not irresponsible sexual/contraceptive behavior.

Actually having children out of wedlock leads to poverty, especially for young black women.

Yeah, lack of two incomes. Again, how does that refute anything I said? O_o
If you're suddenly agreeing with me, just say so.

Quote:So abortion and contraception and counseling, which is what PP makes available to them, work to keep them out of increasing poverty and the problems associated with raising children. This is a self-evident fact that is indisputable. Again...and for the last time....abortion and contraception LESSEN poverty, and don't increase it.

Yet I already showed you over six times the abortion rate for welfare recipients. That isn't getting them out of poverty. Nor is there any evidence that it keeps people from falling into poverty...or even any deeper into poverty (unless you can prove otherwise). Proclaiming things self-evident and indisputable is not an argument. All we know is that those in poverty seem to make a host of bad decisions. You're willfully avoiding the fact that abortion has led to more fatherless children due to the decreased sense of obligation. After all, the state will always step in with welfare.

Quote:Yet I already showed you over six times the abortion rate for welfare recipients. That isn't getting them out of poverty.

Not having more children doesn't help black women out of poverty? Doesn't allow them to find work and get off welfare or go back to school? You're a moron. I'm done.

(Nov 20, 2017 02:49 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: I'm done.

Yeah, you've said that before.

Quote:

Quote:Yet I already showed you over six times the abortion rate for welfare recipients. That isn't getting them out of poverty.

Not having more children doesn't help black women out of poverty? Doesn't allow them to find work and get off welfare or go back to school? You're a moron.

Then show some evidence for your bare assertions already. You haven't because you can't. And now you're begging off because you know that.
So all your bleating about not being a racist was all for naught. You couldn't support any of the excuses you made for thinking blacks lacked free will, should think a certain way, etc..

Good riddance, racist.

(Nov 19, 2017 04:29 PM)Yazata Wrote: I think that in many cases the idea of 'privilege' is a thin cover for today's socially-acceptable and often mandatory left-racism. It's the assertion that members of hated groups (typically white Anglos) are recipients of unfair advantage and must be made the target of discrimination, just to even things out so to speak.

Too often it's a rationalization for racial and ethnic prejudice, hatred, resentment and discrimination. People get labeled as recipients of privilege simply on account of the color of their skin. So a white kid who comes from a poor disfunctional family, who got bullied in high school, ends up being denounced as 'privileged' by the smug comfortable university academics, people with no knowledge of or even any interest in his life circumstances.

He just has the wrong sex and skin color.

Quote:People get labeled as recipients of privilege simply on account of the color of their skin.

This is a Key point that needs to be discussed.
However it is extremely difficult to have intellectual input because of the polarisation of racial bias that most cultures have toward looks in general.
looking gay
looking poor
looking weak
looking like a preppy(us word)/ city living  ignorant towny)
looking thin
looking fat
looking white
looking black

all is looking

then there is all the thousands of years of bias toward breeding.

there is heavy racial bias in most countrys when it comes to breeding.
second is religous bias breeding.

since the majority of the world is darker skinned rather than lighter skinned obviousely the majority of the bias by the population is held by those with darker skin.

thus the question of how to get a person who has many subconscious racial biasis to start openly discussing the nature of bias in the community is a big issue considering they are probably forced by their society to conform to certain ideological paradigms of thought.
thought police !

racial bias is simply a metaphor of a culture of bias sitting at the heart of the issue.

nothing can be solved by radicalising people to be reactionary towards dark or light skin as a social divider(to repair existing bias) because it directly covers up the actual issue of cultural bias sitting under neath.

power systems and how culture educates children toward power structures and authority models is the key.

social change doesnt come by simply changing the colour of a flag/skin anything.

if you wish to engage at the level of the subject and how it translates to inter generational cultural bias,
ask yourself about how parents model authority to their children.
THAT is the clearest symbol of how the child wll be raised to then form & model society.

currently it appears that the over all message of bias is directed to a singular plantif.
thus reducing a social engineering process into a profit & loss process at an individual level.
which as a matter of interest is quite fascinating considering the nature of the discussion suggesting systems of bias being "institutionalised bias".

thus again the fail is reducing the concept of institutionalised bias into a singular profit and loss process that de-personalises the aspect of change from a socially interactive culture model.

it reminds me of the old world ideas round human sacrificing.
you do not change a society by making human sacrifices, equally you do not advance scientific development of crop research to provide more food by making human sacrifices.

leaving us a question about how much of the actual issue is wound up in identity individualisation ?
can you gauge a sense of the scope of the issue by looking at models of authority ?

why are political leaders given power with no expereince ?
why are religous leaders given power over all society with no ability to deliver unbiased leadership to all of society ?

these 2 practices are the maority process in most countrys of all religions.

I really don't like the term ''privilege,'' although it would seem that white people (as a collective) have had advantages in US history, and perhaps to some degree, today. Can't deny that racism is sadly, still a thing. The reason why it's become a risky term to use, is that it tends to paralyze people to changing their circumstances. Your circumstances may be dire in life, but they don't determine your entire future, and terms like ''privilege'' limit people, instead of help them. If it weren't such an overused/abused term, it might be helpful, but like most social justice warring, it has lost its meaning and seems to be just a word thrown around to silence everyone who doesn't agree and shut down potentially meaningful dialogue. Just my two cents.