Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum

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Just remember this.....you can have subtle and nuanced points of view instead of the popular and emotionally-gratifying binary view of "us vs them" or "evil vs good" that takes all of 10 seconds to state. Truth is not measured in soundbytes.

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What's your "subtle and nuanced" view?

(Apr 4, 2026 07:44 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]What's your "subtle and nuanced" view?

Smerconish is good at these. He said today that while he disagreed with us bombing Iraq, he agrees that once we are there we should take all their plutonium. A nuanced pov instead a mere political "position." I agree.

(Apr 4, 2026 08:06 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr 4, 2026 07:44 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]What's your "subtle and nuanced" view?

Smerconish is good at these. He said today that while he disagreed with us bombing Iraq, he agrees that once we are there we should take all their plutonium. A nuanced pov instead a mere political "position." I agree.

I'm guessing you mean Iran.
Why take their enriched uranium if they were never going to make nuclear weapons?
And if they were going to make nuclear weapons, why not bomb them to stop that?

Does "nuanced" mean fence sitting and being panty waist?

Quote:Why take their enriched uranium if they were never going to make nuclear weapons?

Who said that? Do you think there is any other reason for taking it other than that they are going to make nuclear weapons?

Quote:And if they were going to make nuclear weapons, why not bomb them to stop that?

How does bombing affect their ability to make nuclear weapons?

"Iran's primary uranium enrichment facilities are located in Natanz and Fordow. Natanz serves as the main complex with large-scale underground centrifuge halls, while Fordow is a smaller, heavily fortified facility built deep inside a mountain near Qom. A new, highly fortified underground site is also under construction near Natanz, often referred to as the Zagros Mountain site or "Pickaxe Mountain"

Quote:Does "nuanced" mean fence sitting and being panty waist?

LOL It's telling that you would attack this way of thinking, like it was a personal attack on you. Do you even know how to think for yourself instead of reciting the standard "black and white" party line and posting rants by MAGA influencers?

(Apr 4, 2026 09:10 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Why take their enriched uranium if they were never going to make nuclear weapons?

Who said that? Do you think there is any other reason for taking it other than that they are going to make nuclear weapons?

Quote:And if they were going to make nuclear weapons, why not bomb them to stop that?

How does bombing affect their ability to make nuclear weapons?

Fordow & Natanz: Following U.S. airstrikes in June 2025 (Operation Midnight Hammer) and subsequent actions, these sites sustained severe damage to centrifuges, power infrastructure, and ventilation shafts. IAEA assessments indicated that while "almost all sensitive equipment" was destroyed at Fordow, Iran may have moved some equipment beforehand, and assessments continued to show it was "severely damaged" rather than entirely leveled.

"Pickaxe" Mountain Facility: Reports indicate this hidden, deeply buried facility south of Natanz has been a focus of concern. It was not fully destroyed in the initial June 2025 strikes. However, during Operation Epic Fury in 2026, U.S. and Israeli efforts continued to target Iran’s, particularly deep, fortified facilities.
- Google AI

It follows that something would have to be done, militarily, if we wanted to stop Iran's nuclear weapons ambitions.
If you don't think bombing is effective, then you must presume that we have not hindered their uranium enrichment capabilities... and that taking what they have already enriched would only be a minor setback.

Hence either bombing is effective and we take their enriched uranium or bombing is not effective and risking the troops on the ground to take their enriched uranium is not worthwhile.

Quote:

Quote:Does "nuanced" mean fence sitting and being panty waist?

LOL It's telling that you would attack this way of thinking, like it was a personal attack on you. Do you even know how to think for yourself instead of reciting the standard "black and white" party line and posting rants by MAGA influencers?

I know how to form my own analysis and reasoning... not get a crush on the next person who sounds smart and parrot what they say.

Quote:If you don't think bombing is effective, then you must presume that we have not hindered their uranium enrichment capabilities... and that taking what they have already enriched would only be a minor setback.

Yeah..being deep underground kinda keeps bombs on the surface from being effective, especially when the uranium has already been moved somewhere else.

"The visual and technical analysis suggests that Iran may have transferred a large portion—potentially all—of its stockpile of highly enriched uranium at 60 percent to Isfahan on June 9. If correct, this analysis would mean the enrichment vaults at Natanz and Fordow were probably empty before the June strikes, raising questions as to whether there is any enriched uranium “under the rubble” at facilities the Trump administration claimed it “obliterated” in June."--- https://thebulletin.org/2026/03/analysis...e-strikes/

"Currently, Iran is believed to have about 440 kilograms (970 pounds) of uranium enriched to 60 percent – the level at which it becomes much faster to get to the 90 percent threshold needed to produce a nuclear weapon. That amount is enough, theoretically, to produce more than 10 nuclear warheads, International Atomic Energy Agency chief Rafael Grossi told Al Jazeera in early March."---- https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/4/2/...-the-risks

So if bombing isn't effective, then we pretty much have to take the uranium. There's no other way to prevent them from building a nuke.

(Apr 4, 2026 09:54 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]"The visual and technical analysis suggests that Iran may have transferred a large portion—potentially all—of its stockpile of highly enriched uranium at 60 percent to Isfahan on June 9. If correct, this analysis would mean the enrichment vaults at Natanz and Fordow were probably empty before the June strikes, raising questions as to whether there is any enriched uranium “under the rubble” at facilities the Trump administration claimed it “obliterated” in June."

Yes, both the United States and Israel heavily targeted Isfahan during the 2026 conflict known as Operation Epic Fury. Strikes, involving U.S. bunker-buster munitions and Israeli air force operations, heavily targeted the Isfahan Nuclear Technology Center, IRGC missile depots, and ammunition depots, resulting in large explosions and significant damage to the site.
- Google AI

The first thing we learn to do when we are but toddlers is how to imitate. We watch our parents and siblings, watch TV, and see pictures in books, all of which become models for behaving in a certain way. It is one of the few skills hardwired into our brains from birth--a capability so important for adapting and surviving in the world that we would likely not live long with out it. So ingrained into us is it that as we grow older we don't even know we are doing it. Role models. Sports figures. Barbie dolls. Pop stars. All unconsciously emulated ideals for appearing and behaving in a certain way that rewards you with attention and popularity.

And why not? It worked for years when we were little, enabling us to walk and talk and eat and pray and manipulate objects just like our parents and siblings did. How can you possibly figure out what you want to wear without trying on different outfits? How do we ever get a bead on who we actually want to be without trying to be things that don't really suit us? Being like others was always the easy way, the shortcut, the cheat code that helped us win the game. And for most it becomes the answer they settle for--being a two-dimensional character in the supposed-to-be drama of their life. Millions of people stuck inside dead-end careers and imprisoning marriages and lifestyles of endless attention-grabbing make-believe. As Vonnegut said: "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”

Being your real self otoh becomes a lifelong journey of searching and detours and U-turns—-a growing space or freeness negatively defined largely by everything we have tried and rejected being like. And we end up realizing that we are simply no "thing" at all--being only whatever we are doing and engaged with in the present moment. Turns out our essence is simply what we were all along--- our own peculiar and comfortable way of consciously and meaningfully being-in-the-world. We are not a noun. We are a verb.

“Becoming is a verb with a consistency all its own; it does not reduce to, or lead back to, ‘appearing:’ ‘being:’ ‘equaling:’ or ‘producing’.” –Gilles Deleuze