Election fraud

[confused2]

I'm not very confident about what the United States will look like on the other side.

I assume you mean when the next presidential election is due.

It very likely won't be a democracy any longer.

One of the principles of democracy is that the one with the most votes is the winner.

I get the impression you don't have to worry about America being a democracy in four years because [Trump's claim is that] America already isn't a democracy - he got the most votes but didn't win. Instead of guarding against foreign intervention in the election he should have been looking at the machinery that counts votes which, he finds too late, is controlled by his enemies within the state [or outside].

Even if Trump didn't get the most votes he can break American democracy by convincing enough people that he did. Any votes that can't be found simply confirm the fiendish cunning of the enemy within [or outside].

The best option to preserve democracy in America is to give Trump full control of the election machinery (like Putin in Russia) and (effectively) make him president for life.

[Yazata]

It isn't just voter fraud (possibly on an industrial scale) that worries me.

I fear for the future of democracy when the secret police agencies like the FBI and the CIA become politicized and start to be used against political enemies. That's pure Putin and it's exactly what happened in 2016 at the end of the Obama administration. (Just think Comey and Brennan and Clapper and McCabe and Strozk and Page and... even Mueller who never had anything but dragged his destructive charade out for three years.) And notably, nothing resembling that happened in 2020 during the Trump administration, despite his being the media-annoited "fascist" and "authoritarian".

I fear for the future of democracy when the news media become politicized and increasingly speak with one single voice such that diversity of opinion becomes impossible and when truth starts to take a back seat to political advantage. When every day for four years the new york times runs 'Trump sux!' headlines above the fold on the front page, usually entirely false and supposedly based on anonymous "sources" such that it's never possible for readers to know how the source knew what he or she was supposedly revealing or what their motives were. The only thing that was clear is what the biases of the times editors and writers were. (Talk about 'fake news'.)

I fear for the future of democracy when free-speech is replaced by "cancel culture" where people can be and have been fired from their jobs for saying something as innocuous and unobjectionable as "All lives matter".

And I fear for the future of democracy when enforcement of the law becomes a function of one's politics. So that illegal aliens get a free-pass for ignoring immigration law and antifa thugs get a free-pass for their brownshirt tactics, yet tax and environmental and labor and civil rights laws are zealously enforced against political enemies. When the Justice Department becomes the enforcement arm of one political party. As Lavrentiy Beria, Stalin's secret police chief is said to have said, "Show me the man, I'll find you the crime".

The United States is right on the cusp of becoming a Russia-style autocracy. I expect that there will still be elections for some years yet as the country pretends to be a democracy, but things will be engineered so that only one leadership clique can possibly win. Then I expect it to transition into a pure Chinese style system without even the charade of democracy, with only one party and no elections, with labor camps for political enemies, facial recognition surveillance cameras everywhere and total internet censorship.

[Zinjanthropos]

What are the chances that Biden would be completely clueless, kept in the dark, about an attempt to rig the election? Could he be the perfect dupe in such an enterprise?

[C C]

What are the chances that Biden would be completely clueless, kept in the dark, about an attempt to rig the election? Could he be the perfect dupe in such an enterprise?

Quite possible, since in theory such an accomplishment need not have required a centrally coordinated effort. Just local cliques and cells of activity working independently, weakly linked only by their common passion of despising Trump and motivated by a self-righteous call of duty to ensure a Biden win. Remember that this was Asmodeus, Hitler, Dark Vader, and Sauron all rolled-up into one. The greatest threat in decades to the virtuous empire of the Protector Lords and the Establishment (journalism, academia, and entertainment industry). Anything goes, any wrongdoing sanctioned in this special case of defending justice and the divine ideas of Leftist Utopia.

[Syne]

What are the chances that Biden would be completely clueless, kept in the dark, about an attempt to rig the election? Could he be the perfect dupe in such an enterprise?

Quite possible, since in theory such an accomplishment need not have required a centrally coordinated effort. Just local cliques and cells of activity working independently, weakly linked only by their common passion of despising Trump and motivated by a self-righteous call of duty to ensure a Biden win. Remember that this was Asmodeus, Hitler, Dark Vader, and Sauron all rolled-up into one. The greatest threat in decades to the virtuous empire of the Protector Lords and the Establishment (journalism, academia, and entertainment industry). Anything goes, any wrongdoing sanctioned in this special case of defending justice and the divine ideas of Leftist Utopia.

Even presuming Trump were Hitler, most moral people would not use the former to cheat elections, any more than they would use the latter to justify murdering a child (baby Hitler). Both cases make some seriously faulty assumptions. In the case of killing baby Hitler, people make the assumption that a baby's life is predetermined, but if things are determined to that extent, the same forces, that produced and enabled people to accept such a leader, would inevitably produce the same, perhaps just on a different time table. Same goes for Trump. We like to think that some men are just that important, in a historical sense, but the pressures of leftist censorship and bias would have to have produced someone who would stand up to it eventually. And justifying cheating to stop something the left ultimately produced to begin with just exposed the left's immorality. They were eventually going to cheat anyway. It was just a matter of when.

[confused2]

When every day for four years the new york times runs 'Trump sux!' headlines above the fold on the front page, usually entirely false

If the media influences people (and most seem agreed that it does) you have (at least) two factors to explain Trump's lack of votes.
So there's vote rigging and media influence (aka fake news), one alone is sufficient to explain the result but only vote rigging creates a possible winning strategy for Trump so he makes up his own news about vote rigging. You have an environment where people believe what they want to believe without regard to the truth and that's where America is right now.
At least, that's what Cynical Simon thinks.

[Syne]

Simon is an uninformed moron.

If fake news is sufficient to explain the election results, then it only stands to reason that the same fake news is still fake, in reporting election irregularities...even if those irregularities were not enough to change the outcome. It's irrational to believe both that the media has been lying for four years and that they suddenly stopped lying when the election started. That takes a special (pepega) kind of motivated reasoning.

[Syne]

State Police Block GOP Electors From Entering Michigan Capitol to Cast Votes For President Trump – No Reason Given! (VIDEO)


“They’re Scared of Me and They Should Be” – Dominion Whistleblower Says CEO Lied During Michigan Testimony — Personally Witnessed Internet Connections Between Machines

Binnall said people were able to vote more than once by using different variations of their first name such as “William” and “Bill” – Other individuals were able to register under a married name and a maiden name.

At least 1,500 dead people are recorded as voting and more than 19,000 people voted even though they didn’t live in Nevada.

Binnall said there is a minimum of 130,000 instances of voter fraud.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12...ada-video/

[confused2]

State Police Block GOP Electors From Entering Michigan Capitol to Cast Votes For President Trump – No Reason Given! (VIDEO)


“They’re Scared of Me and They Should Be” – Dominion Whistleblower Says CEO Lied During Michigan Testimony — Personally Witnessed Internet Connections Between Machines

Binnall said people were able to vote more than once by using different variations of their first name such as “William” and “Bill” – Other individuals were able to register under a married name and a maiden name.

At least 1,500 dead people are recorded as voting and more than 19,000 people voted even though they didn’t live in Nevada.

Binnall said there is a minimum of 130,000 instances of voter fraud.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12...ada-video/

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Re Binnall and fraud in Nevada - this looks like old news

The top court in Nevada has already rejected (social media?) claims similar (or identical) to those made by Binnall.

Here:

https://factcheck.afp.com/claims-nevada-...-top-court

If there is a conspiracy then it is a good one.

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If fake news is sufficient to explain the election results, then it only stands to reason that the same fake news is still fake,

I don't know why you bothered to make this nonsense up. I look forward to the return of the old Syne who was at least rational.

[Syne]

Binnall said people were able to vote more than once by using different variations of their first name such as “William” and “Bill” – Other individuals were able to register under a married name and a maiden name.

At least 1,500 dead people are recorded as voting and more than 19,000 people voted even though they didn’t live in Nevada.

Binnall said there is a minimum of 130,000 instances of voter fraud.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12...ada-video/

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Re Binnall and fraud in Nevada - this looks like old news

The top court in Nevada has already rejected (social media?) claims similar (or identical) to those made by Binnall.

Here: 

https://factcheck.afp.com/claims-nevada-...-top-court

If there is a conspiracy then it is a good one.

Lots of courts summarily dismissing cases instead of hearing the evidence in trial, most likely for fear of running up against the separation of powers.
As I've said, ad nauseam, no conspiracy necessary.

If fake news is sufficient to explain the election results, then it only stands to reason that the same fake news is still fake,

I don't know why you bothered to make this nonsense up. I look forward to the return of the old Syne who was at least rational.

Simple logic that your motivated reasoning won't allow you to follow. Again, when you don't have any argument, you just call it "fake" or made up. This ploy of yours is getting pretty sad.

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Trump Lawyer: Campaign Wasn’t ‘Allowed a Forensic Audit’ of Nevada Voting Machines

“We were denied [transparency] at every single turn” in Nevada, he said, adding that one Nevada official “locked himself in his office” and wouldn’t open the door when Trump’s lawyers tried to serve him a subpoena.

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Arizona Lawmakers Subpoena Audits of Ballots, Dominion Voting Machines

The Arizona state Senate on Monday announced two subpoenas in the state’s most populous county to audit scanned ballots, voting machines, and software.
...
“One subpoena calls for a scanned ballot audit, to collect an electronic ballot image cast for all mail-in ballots counted in the November 2020 general election in Maricopa County, Arizona. The second subpoena calls for a full forensic audit of ballot tabulation equipment, the software for that equipment and the election management system used in the 2020 general election,”
...
He noted that if such an audit showed that the election results were incorrect, that could help convince members of Congress to file objections to Arizona’s electoral votes.

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https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/grs3FcgTAwE