How to spot misogynists and misandrists

[Leigha]

Nah, not really. I just tend to find validity in the statement ''truth in numbers.'' I believe everyone deserves a fair trial, so like I said, we'll have to see how the details unfold. My ''hunch'' that Weinstein is guilty of raping someone, doesn't make it so. I don't believe in removing anyone's freedom based on allegations. (and I never inferred that) Likewise, you shouldn't assume all of these women are lying simply because Weinstein is wealthy. If he were an unemployed bum, would you believe them more? I've been observing that quite a few men tend to not believe women if the allegations are against wealthy men, celebs, athletes, etc.

[Syne]

Nah, not really. I just tend to find validity in the statement ''truth in numbers.'' I believe everyone deserves a fair trial, so like I said, we'll have to see how the details unfold. My ''hunch'' that Weinstein is guilty of raping someone, doesn't make it so. I don't believe in removing anyone's freedom based on allegations. (and I never inferred that) Likewise, you shouldn't assume all of these women are lying simply because Weinstein is wealthy. If he were an unemployed bum, would you believe them more? I've been observing that quite a few men tend to not believe women if the allegations are against wealthy men, celebs, athletes, etc.

"Truth in numbers" is literally a consensus fallacy.

Who assumed these women were lying simply because Weinstein was wealthy? I certainly did not. If he were an unemployed bum, I might be even more puzzled as to why these women went years without telling anyone. At least in this case, there's an apparent motive for remaining silent. But in either case, I assume there may be some regret/guilt involved in keeping quiet.

You observing many men not believing women in the cases against "wealthy men, celebs, athletes, etc." is likely an artifact of those being the only ones worth publicizing in the media. It's a skewed sample that does not include an equal number of average Joes. But again, aside from being sexually assaulted as a child, where you don't have the capacity to know what to do, what women go years before suddenly claiming some nobody raped them?

[Leigha]

That is true, and I've wondered that, myself - why such a long timeline? Maybe they didn't feel they'd be believed, when it initially happened. And if they felt ashamed of reluctantly consenting, it would put them in an awkward position. Truth in numbers works in terms of women coming forward if they feel others who have endured the same things, are being accepted and taken seriously.

[Zinjanthropos]

Rejection or disrespect can lead to revenge, ....something like that, I’m no expert.

Let’s be honest, poor old Harv isn’t Harlequin book cover material. In fact he looks like a bum off the street and now with his walker, like someone committing insurance/welfare fraud. I would wager that when he started noticing girls, they noticed him in a completely different way.

So what do guys think when they see an ugly dude with a beautiful woman? Guy talk....”Christ, either this guy’s hung like a horse or he’s loaded”. I guess they could be father/daughter but rarely enters the mind. After further analysis, she’s either a hooker/escort or mail order bride. Either way, the guy has money or at least celebrity status. We’re smart enough to know that being well endowed and ugly will still require some kind of higher social rank.

My point here is that under normal circumstances, somewhere along the line everyone gets rejected. For those with the looks, it’s an easy recovery. Guys who look like Harv, not so. Question now is how does one handle it. Rejection, is it a form of disrespect? People kill one another because of it and along with rape, immediate revenge for rejection and disrespect? I would think it probable.

Thing is, there’s no time limit to exact revenge. When you’re young and have been rejected, perhaps revenge is in the back of your mind. This works for both sexes by the way. Is the thought, “if I ever become rich & famous then I’ll.......”. Harv got to a point where he could get even and now so have some of his conquests. Don’t think he saw that in his rear view mirror(npi). Even if he gets off(again npi), he’s toast. Will the sweet taste of revenge be satisfactory? Nah. Don’t drop the soap and pick it up Harv.

[Syne]

That is true, and I've wondered that, myself - why such a long timeline? Maybe they didn't feel they'd be believed, when it initially happened. And if they felt ashamed of reluctantly consenting, it would put them in an awkward position. Truth in numbers works in terms of women coming forward if they feel others who have endured the same things, are being accepted and taken seriously.

It's just as likely, in the current #MeToo environment, that they feel they can gain temporary fame, another payday, of even just ease the guilt over their own consent. You're not likely to convince me that anyone stayed silent that long without it benefiting them in some transactional way...unless the guy was an unemployed bum, and I've never heard of such a case.

[Leigha]

Rejection or disrespect can lead to revenge, ....something like that, I’m no expert.

Let’s be honest, poor old Harv isn’t Harlequin book cover material. In fact he looks like a bum off the street  and now with his walker, like someone committing insurance/welfare fraud. I would wager that when he started noticing girls, they noticed him in a completely different way.

So what do guys think when they see an ugly dude with a beautiful woman? Guy talk....”Christ, either this guy’s hung like a horse or he’s loaded”. I guess they could be father/daughter but rarely enters the mind. After further analysis, she’s either a hooker/escort or mail order bride. Either way, the guy has money or at least celebrity status. We’re smart enough to know that being well endowed and ugly will still require some kind of higher social rank.

My point here is that under normal circumstances, somewhere along the line everyone gets rejected. For those with the looks, it’s an easy recovery. Guys who look like Harv, not so. Question now is how does one handle it. Rejection, is it a form of disrespect? People kill one another because of it and along with rape, immediate revenge for rejection and disrespect? I would think it probable.

Thing is, there’s no time limit to exact revenge. When you’re young and have been rejected, perhaps revenge is in the back of your mind. This works for both sexes by the way. Is the thought, “if I ever become rich & famous then I’ll.......”. Harv got to a point where he could get even and now so have some of his conquests. Don’t think he saw that in his rear view mirror(npi). Even if he gets off(again npi), he’s toast. Will the sweet taste of revenge be satisfactory? Nah. Don’t drop the soap and pick it up Harv.

What an interesting take, Z. So are you suggesting as a possibility that due to Weinstein being rejected at different times in his life before he became wealthy, etc he sought revenge once he reached a certain status? He knew he could get away with it, kind of thing?

[Zinjanthropos]

What an interesting take, Z. So are you suggesting as a possibility that due to Weinstein being rejected at different times in his life before he became wealthy, etc he sought revenge once he reached a certain status? He knew he could get away with it, kind of thing?

Only a possibility and it works both ways. Is it revenge? I think there's an element of it there. Of course there are many other factors involved. So many different people in the world.

[Syne]

I doubt such behavior is intentional revenge. For one, wealthy men only come to think they can get away with certain behavior because so many women have proven to be transactional. It seems to just be a pragmatic understanding that he wants sex and they want money, fame, etc.. Considering Weinstein's dad was a Jewish diamond cutter and he was producing big name rock concerts in college, I seriously doubt he's ever been poor enough to rely solely on his looks.

OTHO, the long delay in accusations does seem to have some element of revenge, where the women didn't ultimately get everything they'd envisioned from the transaction.

[Zinjanthropos]

I doubt such behavior is intentional revenge. For one, wealthy men only come to think they can get away with certain behavior because so many women have proven to be transactional. It seems to just be a pragmatic understanding that he wants sex and they want money, fame, etc.. Considering Weinstein's dad was a Jewish diamond cutter and he was producing big name rock concerts in college, I seriously doubt he's ever been poor enough to rely solely on his looks.

OTHO, the long delay in accusations does seem to have some element of revenge, where the women didn't ultimately get everything they'd envisioned from the transaction.

I would bet Harv went to private schools pre-college, girls there wouldn’t need his money. He needed to walk into a women’s prison with a handful of pardons to have a chance. 

I agree, probably not intentional to an extent. However if we build up a disdain or hatred for some group are we more likely to react unfavourably. He obviously had an MO, does that imply premeditation or planning? What the accusers are doing, is it revenge? Intentional?

[Syne]

I would bet Harv went to private schools pre-college, girls there wouldn’t need his money. He needed to walk into a women’s prison with a handful of pardons to have a chance. 

I agree, probably not intentional to an extent. However if we build up a disdain or hatred for some group are we more likely to react unfavourably. He obviously had an MO, does that imply premeditation or planning? What the accusers are doing, is it revenge? Intentional?

Weinstein didn't appear to be especially ugly or fat in his high school yearbook. By all accounts he was always successful.