To forgive or hold a grudge? Is there a third option?

#1
I think so. About two years ago, a friend of mine broke a confidence with me. I shared a private matter with him, and he shared it with others. He apologized for doing so, and I accepted it. We moved on. Then, he did it a second time, when I shared another private matter. I decided to just go ''no contact,'' and blocked his phone number, and email. No warnings, no more discussions. Didn't tell him how I felt, like I had done the first time. I heard through a mutual friend that he has been ''desperate'' to correct this mistake. He believes that he deserves a second chance to make things right with our friendship. We were friends for about seven years. 

The thing is, I don't really have any animosity towards him. It's not a matter of forgiving him, or holding onto a grudge. I wish him the best, but simply don't see him as a friend, anymore. I don't wish to open up the lines of communication, and it's really as simple as that.

What are your thoughts on forgiveness? Do you see it as an either/or kind of dilemma? Or do you feel that a third option is needed, when we just don't feel like forgiveness is really ours to even give. Perhaps that's how I could say it best. I'd appreciate any real life examples you'd like to share, if you're willing.
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#2
(Apr 23, 2019 05:26 AM)Leigha Wrote: I think so. About two years ago, a friend of mine broke a confidence with me. I shared a private matter with him, and he shared it with others. He apologized for doing so, and I accepted it. We moved on. Then, he did it a second time, when I shared another private matter. I decided to just go ''no contact,'' and blocked his phone number, and email. No warnings, no more discussions. Didn't tell him how I felt, like I had done the first time. I heard through a mutual friend that he has been ''desperate'' to correct this mistake. He believes that he deserves a second chance to make things right with our friendship. We were friends for about seven years. 

The thing is, I don't really have any animosity towards him. It's not a matter of forgiving him, or holding onto a grudge. I wish him the best, but simply don't see him as a friend, anymore. I don't wish to open up the lines of communication, and it's really as simple as that.

What are your thoughts on forgiveness? Do you see it as an either/or kind of dilemma? Or do you feel that a third option is needed, when we just don't feel like forgiveness is really ours to even give. Perhaps that's how I could say it best. I'd appreciate any real life examples you'd like to share, if you're willing.


Quote:He believes that he deserves

what he deserves is nothing

the fact that he is telling others that he deserves something from you in-spite of making such a terrible betrayal of trust for a 2nd time is a shocking admission of a serious lack of empathy or self control.
either he is emotionally stunted on the need to buy other peoples adoration and confidence by trading yours, or he is emotionally unstable and needs to go about proving he has the value to get inside other peoples private trust boundaries.
the other option is narcissist[borderline] ... (or borderline schizophrenia which causes OCD addiction behavior issues).


does he cheat in games ? this tells you quite a lot about a person.

once he is past the age of about 25 and has broken your trust for the 2nd time.
its all over. he wont change without serious work and only he can do that.
you cant force him to go and get therapy.
the only thing you can do is walk away to protect your own value of yourself to him and to yourself.
this process may motivate him to make the change of himself, maybe it wont.

such behaviors usually always stem from an addiction process.
you cant force them to choose to do the work to change who they are.



Quote:What are your thoughts on forgiveness?
i think forgiveness is the healthy option for yourself.
Forgiveness in a spiritual sense is mandatory as a desired ends because holding on to the hate only eats at you from the inside.
unfortunately not many people comprehend the difference between forgiveness and not caring about other people, and respecting others and respecting themselves.

its very complicated in reality, though many people claim its simple. its not.
reaching a point of ambivalence as a conscious emotional position of self understanding is quite admirable.
many confuse this with emotional shallowness or a lack of ability to have deep emotional bonds.
its quite different.

asking yourself why you dont care is also a mandatory part of self understanding.
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#3
Ahhh....both of you have the same problem.....you just can’t help telling somebody sensitive information...lol. I’d blame myself first for being so trusting or stupid, whatever sounds nicer. You went up against human nature and lost, not once but twice. A secret ceases to be a secret once given away.

I once divulged a friend’s secret I was supposed to keep to myself. When it happened I said to myself that I’d made a big mistake. Sure enough word got out and my friend (still is) confronted me. Along with an apology I added those famous words, “Why did you tell me? I’m human”. I learned from that experience and if someone wants to tell me a secret I say “I don’t want to hear it” or “What are you telling me for”. So simple and easy to do. Let somebody else make the mistake. So if you have a secret to tell, say it to your dog and avoid telling humans altogether.

Forgiving or holding a grudge won’t erase the memory. 3rd option...avoid placing yourself in an awkward position to begin with. If that means understanding human psychology then .......
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#4
(Apr 23, 2019 05:26 AM)Leigha Wrote: . . . Then, he did it a second time, when I shared another private matter. I decided to just go ''no contact,'' and blocked his phone number, and email. No warnings, no more discussions. Didn't tell him how I felt, like I had done the first time. I heard through a mutual friend that he has been ''desperate'' to correct this mistake. He believes that he deserves a second chance to make things right with our friendship. We were friends for about seven years.


Governments expel spies, whether recent or undercover for years. Someone encroachingly trying to reacquire the status of being a confidant after they've repeatedly demonstrated in the past that he or she fails at it, sort of acquires similarity to such. With respect to top secret (personal) information, and getting their hands on other classified dialogue again in the course of "friend" exchanges.

Quote:. . . Or do you feel that a third option is needed, when we just don't feel like forgiveness is really ours to even give. Perhaps that's how I could say it best.


Yah, like firing an employee or shutting down privileges to an associate, visitor, etc after direct or indirect corporate espionage, it can be a formal or systematic response to rules being broken or malicious activity. Emotional feelings (grudges, etc) don't have to factor into it.

###
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#5
(Apr 23, 2019 01:07 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Ahhh....both of you have the same problem.....you just can’t help telling somebody sensitive information...lol. I’d blame myself first for being so trusting or stupid, whatever sounds nicer. You went up against human nature and lost, not once but twice. A secret ceases to be a secret once given away.

I once divulged a friend’s secret I was supposed to keep to myself. When it happened I said to myself that I’d made a big mistake. Sure enough word got out and my friend (still is) confronted me. Along with an apology I added those famous words, “Why did you tell me? I’m human”. I learned from that experience and if someone wants to tell me a secret I say “I don’t want to hear it” or “What are you telling me for”. So simple and easy to do. Let somebody else make the mistake. So if you have a secret to tell, say it to your dog and avoid telling humans altogether.

Forgiving or holding a grudge won’t erase the memory. 3rd option...avoid placing yourself in an awkward position to begin with. If that means understanding human psychology then .......

Ummm...I was sharing something about my life with him. He was supposed to be a friend. Friends share things in conversation, confide in one another, and the thing is, he sort of twisted what I had told him, so mutual friends were getting an inaccurate picture. I think that is why I feel the way I do about it. 

That said though - Dismissing culpability by saying ''I'm human,'' then hopefully you won't be offended when someone betrays you in some way, and shrugs it off saying ''hey man, I'm just human.''  Big Grin

(Apr 23, 2019 03:29 PM)C C Wrote:
(Apr 23, 2019 05:26 AM)Leigha Wrote: . . . Then, he did it a second time, when I shared another private matter. I decided to just go ''no contact,'' and blocked his phone number, and email. No warnings, no more discussions. Didn't tell him how I felt, like I had done the first time. I heard through a mutual friend that he has been ''desperate'' to correct this mistake. He believes that he deserves a second chance to make things right with our friendship. We were friends for about seven years.


Governments expel spies, whether recent or undercover for years. Someone encroachingly trying to reacquire the status of being a confidant after they've repeatedly demonstrated in the past that he or she fails at it, sort of acquires similarity to such. With respect to top secret (personal) information, and getting their hands on other classified dialogue again in the course of "friend" exchanges.  

Quote:. . . Or do you feel that a third option is needed, when we just don't feel like forgiveness is really ours to even give. Perhaps that's how I could say it best.


Yah, like firing an employee or shutting down privileges to an associate, visitor, etc after direct or indirect corporate espionage, it can be a formal or systematic response to rules being broken or malicious activity. Emotional feelings (grudges, etc) don't have to factor into it.  

###

Yes, I could very easily liken this to an act of treason! Not serious.  Tongue 

You're spot on, it's perhaps like firing an employee. No hard feelings, I just don't want to employee you anymore, because you have proven that you're not trustworthy. That's where I'm at.

(Apr 23, 2019 09:18 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote:
(Apr 23, 2019 05:26 AM)Leigha Wrote: I think so. About two years ago, a friend of mine broke a confidence with me. I shared a private matter with him, and he shared it with others. He apologized for doing so, and I accepted it. We moved on. Then, he did it a second time, when I shared another private matter. I decided to just go ''no contact,'' and blocked his phone number, and email. No warnings, no more discussions. Didn't tell him how I felt, like I had done the first time. I heard through a mutual friend that he has been ''desperate'' to correct this mistake. He believes that he deserves a second chance to make things right with our friendship. We were friends for about seven years. 

The thing is, I don't really have any animosity towards him. It's not a matter of forgiving him, or holding onto a grudge. I wish him the best, but simply don't see him as a friend, anymore. I don't wish to open up the lines of communication, and it's really as simple as that.

What are your thoughts on forgiveness? Do you see it as an either/or kind of dilemma? Or do you feel that a third option is needed, when we just don't feel like forgiveness is really ours to even give. Perhaps that's how I could say it best. I'd appreciate any real life examples you'd like to share, if you're willing.


Quote:He believes that he deserves

what he deserves is nothing

the fact that he is telling others that he deserves something from you in-spite of making such a terrible betrayal of trust for a 2nd time is a shocking admission of a serious lack of empathy or self control.
either he is emotionally stunted on the need to buy other peoples adoration and confidence by trading yours, or he is emotionally unstable and needs to go about proving he has the value to get inside other peoples private trust boundaries.
the other option is narcissist[borderline] ... (or borderline schizophrenia which causes OCD addiction behavior issues).


does he cheat in games ? this tells you quite a lot about a person.

once he is past the age of about 25 and has broken your trust for the 2nd time.
its all over. he wont change without serious work and only he can do that.
you cant force him to go and get therapy.
the only thing you can do is walk away to protect your own value of yourself to him and to yourself.
this process may motivate him to make the change of himself, maybe it wont.

such behaviors usually always stem from an addiction process.
you cant force them to choose to do the work to change who they are.



Quote:What are your thoughts on forgiveness?
i think forgiveness is the healthy option for yourself.
Forgiveness in a spiritual sense is mandatory as a desired ends because holding on to the hate only eats at you from the inside.
unfortunately not many people comprehend the difference between forgiveness and not caring about other people, and respecting others and respecting themselves.

its very complicated in reality, though many people claim its simple. its not.
reaching a point of ambivalence as a conscious emotional position of self understanding is quite admirable.
many confuse this with emotional shallowness or a lack of ability to have deep emotional bonds.
its quite different.

asking yourself why you dont care is also a mandatory part of self understanding.

This is deep. And I agree with you. It's weird, but when you step away from a situation, and view it from a helicopter, you realize that the person you were once friends with, wasn't much of a friend, after all. And in that revelation, you see your own flaws, in perhaps accepting people as friends, calling them friends, who really never were, in the first place. I'd definitely recommend no contact when trying to process hurt feelings, because you may realize that the friendship is worth ''saving,'' or it never was a friendship at all. One can gain clarity in silence.
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#6
If I had a friend who repeatedly betrayed my trust I probably would talk to him and find out why he keeps doing that. I would also probably quit confiding in him. He would still be a friend, but no longer a close friend.
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#7
(Apr 23, 2019 08:29 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: If I had a friend who repeatedly betrayed my trust I probably would talk to him and find out why he keeps doing that. I would also probably quit confiding in him. He would still be a friend, but no longer a close friend.

That makes sense. I'm good, though. lol Not interested in his ''friendship'' anymore. And when he broke my trust the first time, I did have that chat with him. He apologized and yet did the same thing, again. I have a heart, ya know. Wink

How you define friendship? I have friends that are more social acquaintances, and I don't confide in them, really. Not because there's no trust established, I just don't see them as more than a friendly/social acquaintance.
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#8
(Apr 23, 2019 08:42 PM)Leigha Wrote:
(Apr 23, 2019 08:29 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: If I had a friend who repeatedly betrayed my trust I probably would talk to him and find out why he keeps doing that. I would also probably quit confiding in him. He would still be a friend, but no longer a close friend.

That makes sense. I'm good, though. lol Not interested in his ''friendship'' anymore. And when he broke my trust the first time, I did have that chat with him. He apologized and yet did the same thing, again. I have a heart, ya know. Wink

How you define friendship? I have friends that are more social acquaintances, and I don't confide in them, really. Not because there's no trust established, I just don't see them as more than a friendly/social acquaintance.

A friend can range from an acquaintance at work to your own sister or brother. There are corresponding levels of confidence here. Some you don't confide in. Others you do. You will intuitively know which is which. Or else learn the hard way--- from experience.
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#9
The main concern of a loss of trust in a (ex)friend is how it can effect not just other friendships but the ability to make new friends.  It can become a bit like a mental scar making a person wary of who they let close.  Don't let one persons broken feality stop you from having the confidence to have friends in general.  

Some friends make better confidant's than others, happy to listen and not gossipy.  You can usually tell what type of friend they are by what they like to talk about.  For instance do they like to talk about themselves? (placing them at the centre of attention) or do they keep quite most of the time? (They likely have deep unspoken impressions/opinions and will only be around those they find are trustworthy)

If they are overtly gossipy about everyone they've known, especially mutual acquaintances, the likelihood is they will likely talk of things about you.  That might be fine if you've shared an activity or event which is memorable (you're life to them is like folklore then) but should you ever have a falling out, or they choose to let your friendship slide, that's likely when their gossip can turn to things that can damage your reputation with others.

Guy's can be pretty blunt about their relationships.  Some guys think that expressing what they did with a girl behind the bleachers is something that all the other guys should know about.  Although there is something some keep to, "Gentlemen don't tell tales".  

Unfortunately there is no Hippocratic oath in friendship although the oath itself has:
Hippocratic Oath Wrote:... And whatsoever I shall see or hear in the course of my profession, as well as outside my profession in my intercourse with men(probably means mankind), if it be what should not be published abroad, I will never divulge, holding such things to be holy secrets. ...

I guess the closest to it are the pinky swear/crossing the heart/spit palm shake.

Personally I tend to be friendly to all, although I don't see people half as much as I should. In some respects I suppose its not good not to be there when people might need you, although due to my "surveillance" concern I'm actually keeping away from the people they know so anything they choose to do isn't reported or seen to an unknown body that is likely using information collected for intelligence purposes. In otherword's I feel forced into reclusion and they will never truly know or understand why (even if I tell them)

The problem likely arose from being too open by letter (Penpals) and email when younger, if I kept a stricter discipline I likely wouldn't be in this situation now. While I likely confided in who I thought were likeminded people around the same age, I don't know if they lied about who they were, what their ages were or even if the country they were in was likely to target me because of social/legal differences. I guess you could say I'm haunted (figuratively) about what information I outputted online far before social networks really kicked off.
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#10
(Apr 23, 2019 04:57 PM)Leigha Wrote:
(Apr 23, 2019 09:18 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote:
(Apr 23, 2019 05:26 AM)Leigha Wrote: I think so. About two years ago, a friend of mine broke a confidence with me. I shared a private matter with him, and he shared it with others. He apologized for doing so, and I accepted it. We moved on. Then, he did it a second time, when I shared another private matter. I decided to just go ''no contact,'' and blocked his phone number, and email. No warnings, no more discussions. Didn't tell him how I felt, like I had done the first time. I heard through a mutual friend that he has been ''desperate'' to correct this mistake. He believes that he deserves a second chance to make things right with our friendship. We were friends for about seven years. 

The thing is, I don't really have any animosity towards him. It's not a matter of forgiving him, or holding onto a grudge. I wish him the best, but simply don't see him as a friend, anymore. I don't wish to open up the lines of communication, and it's really as simple as that.

What are your thoughts on forgiveness? Do you see it as an either/or kind of dilemma? Or do you feel that a third option is needed, when we just don't feel like forgiveness is really ours to even give. Perhaps that's how I could say it best. I'd appreciate any real life examples you'd like to share, if you're willing.


Quote:He believes that he deserves

what he deserves is nothing

the fact that he is telling others that he deserves something from you in-spite of making such a terrible betrayal of trust for a 2nd time is a shocking admission of a serious lack of empathy or self control.
either he is emotionally stunted on the need to buy other peoples adoration and confidence by trading yours, or he is emotionally unstable and needs to go about proving he has the value to get inside other peoples private trust boundaries.
the other option is narcissist[borderline] ... (or borderline schizophrenia which causes OCD addiction behavior issues).


does he cheat in games ? this tells you quite a lot about a person.

once he is past the age of about 25 and has broken your trust for the 2nd time.
its all over. he wont change without serious work and only he can do that.
you cant force him to go and get therapy.
the only thing you can do is walk away to protect your own value of yourself to him and to yourself.
this process may motivate him to make the change of himself, maybe it wont.

such behaviors usually always stem from an addiction process.
you cant force them to choose to do the work to change who they are.



Quote:What are your thoughts on forgiveness?
i think forgiveness is the healthy option for yourself.
Forgiveness in a spiritual sense is mandatory as a desired ends because holding on to the hate only eats at you from the inside.
unfortunately not many people comprehend the difference between forgiveness and not caring about other people, and respecting others and respecting themselves.

its very complicated in reality, though many people claim its simple. its not.
reaching a point of ambivalence as a conscious emotional position of self understanding is quite admirable.
many confuse this with emotional shallowness or a lack of ability to have deep emotional bonds.
its quite different.

asking yourself why you dont care is also a mandatory part of self understanding.

This is deep. And I agree with you. It's weird, but when you step away from a situation, and view it from a helicopter, you realize that the person you were once friends with, wasn't much of a friend, after all. And in that revelation, you see your own flaws, in perhaps accepting people as friends, calling them friends, who really never were, in the first place. I'd definitely recommend no contact when trying to process hurt feelings, because you may realize that the friendship is worth ''saving,'' or it never was a friendship at all. One can gain clarity in silence.

Quote:One can gain clarity in silence.

one of my parents in a moment of anger and frustration outlined the nature of such when i was a child.
it was a lesson well learnt.

real friendships are magical things.
they endure time like a stopped clock
they endure confrontation and lifes harsh circumstances like a weathered lighthouse.
unfortunately, the fickle nature of forced social culture expectations, mostly demands that symbolism must be paraded like some cheap dog show which gives license to other non friends to critique and try and gain leverage into the interpersonal bonding as a form of emotional harvesting for personal greed.


it is a double edged sword however, coming to some sense of awareness in that you may recognize instantly someone whom you may be capable of being very good close friends with, but circumstance, society and professional mechanisms may stand in the way to the financial or networking detriment of either person.

this is where the practice of unselfish love becomes a huge benefit.

(Apr 23, 2019 11:45 PM)stryder Wrote: spit palm shake.



eeewwww !
lol

dont forget all those film-noire teenage discovery movies where they stab their finger with a needle each then mix blood as a "blood oath" lol
(ignore the link origin its just the only pic i could find easily)
 hahahahaa
being a teenager.... witchcraft wedgie-boards(lol) and mixing of bodily fluids...
boys covered in mud
girls covered in blood
society covered in condescending sexual innuendo lol

[Image: Stroke-Health-Trick-Needle.jpg]
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