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Ex-male escort ... 'turns straight'

#31
Secular Sanity Offline
(Jan 14, 2019 05:46 PM)Syne Wrote: Asexually-reproducing species can become sexually-reproducing due to environmental stresses, and the subsequent need to adapt faster, without any time to evolve a sexual desire at all.

If the sex drive had no basis in reproduction, we could not show evidence of sexual selection.


Are you saying sexual selection doesn't occur? O_o

No but society informs me on what I should and shouldn’t seek. Without that outside influence, shit just happens.

The Biological Urge?
But for both sexes, what are the hard-wired biological processes that create the desire for a child?

Here’s the truth that’s not talked about — For women, there is no real evidence to support the notion that there is a biological process that creates that deep longing for a child. And the same for men; there’s no real evidence linking biology to the creation of parental desire.
So what’s behind the “urge” if it’s not biological?

Similar to the origins of what I call “Fulfillment Assumption” in The Baby Matrix , the answer first goes back to pronatalist notions that were created about parenthood generations ago, when society needed to encourage people to have lots of children. In addition to pushing the idea that parenthood was “the” path to fulfillment in life, another had to do with the idea that “normal” women experience an instinctual longing from within to have a child, and if they didn’t there was something wrong with them. This belief is part of the larger pronatal “Destiny Assumption” that was created many years ago, that, like the Fulfillment Assumption, has stuck long after its usefulness.

The deep feelings of wanting to have a child have their roots in a learned desire from strong, long-standing social and cultural pronatal influences — not biological ones. And we’ve been influenced so strongly for so long that it just feels “innate.”

Syne Wrote:No, some of your parents' traits pass to your children. His traits wouldn't unless you've been engaging in incest. Basic biology, deary.

Traits from our parents that we both share, duh! Try reading a little before you post.

Syne Wrote:That very thing is highly correlated with addiction, depression, and suicide. There are many things that make people happy but are not healthy.

Lack of acceptance is a common denominator for both happiness and health.

Syne Wrote:How are higher rates of intimate partner violence caused by homophobia? O_o

Again, social stress probably contributes, but if you're talking about men, even you know the answer to that.

Syne Wrote:

Other factors, such as the elevated rates of sexual abuse victimization among the LGBT population discussed in Part One, may also account for some of these mental health disparities, as research has consistently shown that “survivors of childhood sexual abuse are significantly at risk of a wide range of medical, psychological, behavioral, and sexual disorders.”


It's not a sexual disorder but our need for love and acceptance is strong. I think you're more uncomfortable with the idea that our sexual preferences might be more fluid than we originally thought or maybe you're just bored. Try playing a video game or something. I have to workout if I want maintain my quota.  Big Grin

Cioa
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#32
Leigha Offline
So, are we disputing in this thread, if ''turning'' straight is even a thing? If it's fluid, the idea of ''turning'' hetero or homosexual, becomes somewhat of a moot point, no?
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#33
Zinjanthropos Offline
(Jan 14, 2019 10:10 PM)Leigha Wrote: So, are we disputing in this thread, if ''turning'' straight is even a thing? If it's fluid, the idea of ''turning'' hetero or homosexual, becomes somewhat of a moot point, no?

This guy is way past the 15 minute fame threshold with a lot more time remaining. Why can’t we say to him, “ Well that’s nice” and be done with it.  OP makes it sound like he’s the first which I suspect is totally false. No Tareyton smoker here, only a switch for personal gain IMHO.
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#34
Leigha Offline
(Jan 14, 2019 10:40 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote:
(Jan 14, 2019 10:10 PM)Leigha Wrote: So, are we disputing in this thread, if ''turning'' straight is even a thing? If it's fluid, the idea of ''turning'' hetero or homosexual, becomes somewhat of a moot point, no?

This guy is way past the 15 minute fame threshold with a lot more time remaining. Why can’t we say to him, “ Well that’s nice” and be done with it.  OP makes it sound like he’s the first which I suspect is totally false. No Tareyton smoker here, only a switch for personal gain IMHO.

Best post of the thread, agreed.  Exclamation
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#35
Syne Offline
(Jan 14, 2019 08:18 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote:
(Jan 14, 2019 05:46 PM)Syne Wrote: Asexually-reproducing species can become sexually-reproducing due to environmental stresses, and the subsequent need to adapt faster, without any time to evolve a sexual desire at all.

If the sex drive had no basis in reproduction, we could not show evidence of sexual selection.


Are you saying sexual selection doesn't occur? O_o

No but society informs me on what I should and shouldn’t seek. Without that outside influence, shit just happens.
That's not just without outside influence. That's also without any other potential for a mate. Of course sexual selection can't occur where there is no competition and no choices. And just like I said, "nurturing affects nature", and culture is a trivial part of that nurturing.


What, too much cognitive dissonance to answer this question or confront the direct analog to your ignorant argument?
(Jan 14, 2019 05:46 PM)Syne Wrote: Do you still insist that hunger has nothing to do with survival?

Quote:The Biological Urge?
But for both sexes, what are the hard-wired biological processes that create the desire for a child?

Here’s the truth that’s not talked about — For women, there is no real evidence to support the notion that there is a biological process that creates that deep longing for a child. And the same for men; there’s no real evidence linking biology to the creation of parental desire.
So what’s behind the “urge” if it’s not biological?

Similar to the origins of what I call “Fulfillment Assumption” in The Baby Matrix , the answer first goes back to pronatalist notions that were created about parenthood generations ago, when society needed to encourage people to have lots of children. In addition to pushing the idea that parenthood was “the” path to fulfillment in life, another had to do with the idea that “normal” women experience an instinctual longing from within to have a child, and if they didn’t there was something wrong with them. This belief is part of the larger pronatal “Destiny Assumption” that was created many years ago, that, like the Fulfillment Assumption, has stuck long after its usefulness.

The deep feelings of wanting to have a child have their roots in a learned desire from strong, long-standing social and cultural pronatal influences — not biological ones. And we’ve been influenced so strongly for so long that it just feels “innate.”
HuffPo, really? "Expert on the Childfree Choice" Rolleyes

Talk about bias.

Quote:
Syne Wrote:No, some of your parents' traits pass to your children. His traits wouldn't unless you've been engaging in incest. Basic biology, deary.

Traits from our parents that we both share, duh! Try reading a little before you post.
You didn't mention your parents:
(Jan 14, 2019 03:28 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: My brother doesn’t have any children but some of his traits might be passed down through my children.

Not my problem if you don't understand basic genetics. You passed on all the traits your children could have inherited from your parents. Any unique variation of those that your brother could call his own are not passed to your children...again, barring incest.

Quote:
Syne Wrote:That very thing is highly correlated with addiction, depression, and suicide. There are many things that make people happy but are not healthy.

Lack of acceptance is a common denominator for both happiness and health.
That's a complex cause fallacy.

Quote:
Syne Wrote:How are higher rates of intimate partner violence caused by homophobia? O_o

Again, social stress probably contributes, but if you're talking about men, even you know the answer to that.
"Probably" is not an argument.

43.8% of lesbian women and 61.1% of bisexual women have experienced rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner at some point in their lifetime, as opposed to 35% of heterosexual women.
26% of gay men and 37.3% of bisexual men have experienced rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner in their lifetime, in comparison to 29% of heterosexual men.
- https://ncadv.org/blog/posts/domestic-vi...-community


You were saying?

Quote:
Syne Wrote:

Other factors, such as the elevated rates of sexual abuse victimization among the LGBT population discussed in Part One, may also account for some of these mental health disparities, as research has consistently shown that “survivors of childhood sexual abuse are significantly at risk of a wide range of medical, psychological, behavioral, and sexual disorders.”


It's not a sexual disorder but our need for love and acceptance is strong. I think you're more uncomfortable with the idea that our sexual preferences might be more fluid than we originally thought or maybe you're just bored. Try playing a video game or something. I have to workout if I want maintain my quota.  Big Grin

No one has disputed that it's a subjective need for love and acceptance. Another straw man.

But unless you're arguing that no subjective need can be a disorder, you're haven't made any point at all.
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#36
Syne Offline
(Jan 14, 2019 10:40 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote:
(Jan 14, 2019 10:10 PM)Leigha Wrote: So, are we disputing in this thread, if ''turning'' straight is even a thing? If it's fluid, the idea of ''turning'' hetero or homosexual, becomes somewhat of a moot point, no?

This guy is way past the 15 minute fame threshold with a lot more time remaining. Why can’t we say to him, “ Well that’s nice” and be done with it.  OP makes it sound like he’s the first which I suspect is totally false. No Tareyton smoker here, only a switch for personal gain IMHO.

I'm sure there are many more, but when the idea of conversion is verboten in the media, academia, and healthcare, the few such stories that get any coverage do counter the narrative....and allow others who feel similarly to not think they are traitors to the cause or something.

Is it okay to criticize him now that he identifies as straight? Or do you have any similar criticisms of current gays too?
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#37
Secular Sanity Offline
(Jan 14, 2019 11:50 PM)Syne Wrote: That's not just without outside influence. That's also without any other potential for a mate. Of course sexual selection can't occur where there is no competition and no choices. And just like I said, "nurturing affects nature", and culture is a trivial part of that nurturing.

That's what an innate drive is, Syne. Innate behavior is an instinct programmed at a genetic level. What part of this don’t you understand? We are animals. If it’s an innate behavior, an animal raised in isolation will perform that behavior. Throw two sexually uneducated humans that are attracted to each other into a room and one is bound to windup pregnant.

Our sex drive is what drives reproduction, not the other way around, silly boy!

I don't know what's wrong with you. Maybe you were brainwashed by Peterson or something. Who knows?

Quote:You should have some kids so that you have something to do. It’s a barren future without children, man. I can tell you that. It’s a real mistake. And you think when you’re nineteen, because you’re so clueless when you’re nineteen. You don’t know a bloody thing. You think...well, I’m not really sure I want children anyways. It’s like, oh, yeah, you can tell how well you’ve been educated. Jesus!

He goes on and on and it gets even worse.  Confused

Syne Wrote:You didn't mention your parents:

Not my problem if you don't understand basic genetics. You passed on all the traits your children could have inherited from your parents. Any unique variation of those that your brother could call his own are not passed to your children...again, barring incest.

It sounds like you're the one that doesn't understand how it works. My brother is heterosexual but my point was that if homosexuality was genetic, the trait could be passed on through siblings.

You're being so ridiculous. I'm starting to think that you're just fucking with me.

Zinman is right and we've already had this discussion in the past. Nothing ever changes. It's futile.
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#38
Zinjanthropos Offline
Quote:Is it okay to criticize him now that he identifies as straight? Or do you have any similar criticisms of current gays too?

Your decision, go ahead if you want, don’t need my permission. Unless I know your critique I can’t answer second part. What is your criticism?

I’m just sitting back, waiting to see him capitalize. Should start soon.
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#39
Leigha Offline
How does it ''counter the narrative'' though, if one gradually falls out of attraction when it comes to having same sex partners? For every story that is similar to the guy in the OP, there are many stories that are told from the opposite viewpoint. (straight people who ''gradually become'' gay)
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#40
Syne Offline
(Jan 15, 2019 02:39 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote:
(Jan 14, 2019 11:50 PM)Syne Wrote: That's not just without outside influence. That's also without any other potential for a mate. Of course sexual selection can't occur where there is no competition and no choices. And just like I said, "nurturing affects nature", and culture is a trivial part of that nurturing.

That's what an innate drive is, Syne. Innate behavior is an instinct programmed at a genetic level. What part of this don’t you understand? We are animals. If it’s an innate behavior, an animal raised in isolation will perform that behavior. Throw two sexually uneducated humans that are attracted to each other into a room and one is bound to windup pregnant.

Our sex drive is what drives reproduction, not the other way around, silly boy!

I don't know what's wrong with you. Maybe you were brainwashed by Peterson or something. Who knows?
You keep arguing as if someone said sex is not innate behavior. I really don't know, at this point, if that's an intentional straw man or you're really that confused. Likely just an effect of you quelling cognitive dissonance...like your inability to even address the hunger analog.
Yes, any sexually-reproducing animal will do so, if given the opportunity. And? How exactly can you tell if it's sexual desire or reproduction? Just because that's what you consciously feel? Wow, how scientific. Rolleyes

Again, species evolved sexual reproduction before sexual pleasure. The evolutionary use for pleasure only serves the biological imperative to reproduce...just like the pleasure found in food serves the imperative to consume calories. Maybe you're confused because the libido is usually only studied/discussed in psychological terms, where evolution is in biological terms. But here's a winning [sarcasm] example of an anthropologist's take on the evolution of human sexuality:

Symons also argues that rape can be explained in evolutionary terms and feminist claims that it is not sexually motivated are incorrect.
...
It has been seen as a classic work on human sexual evolution and used as a textbook, though critics have questioned Symons's explanation of the female orgasm and his suggestion that eliminating rape "might well entail a cure worse than the disease".
...
Discussing rape, Symons suggests that because males can "potentially sire offspring at almost no cost ... selection favors male attempts to copulate with fertile females whenever this potential can be realized." He criticizes the feminist Susan Brownmiller's argument in Against Our Will (1975) that rape is not sexually motivated, writing that she inadequately documents her thesis and that all of the reasons that she and other authors have given for concluding that rapists are not motivated by sexual desire are open to criticism. Symons writes that Brownmiller's claim that the function of rape is to keep all women in a state of fear has been "vigorously contested", and that it is also an example of a naïve form of functionalism, which is unacceptable since no process that might generate such "functions" has been shown to exist. Symons argues that socialization towards a "more humane sexuality" requires the inhibition of impulses that are part of human nature because they have proved adaptive over millions of years, and concluded that while under the right rearing conditions, "males could be produced who would want only the kinds of sexual interactions that women want" this "might well entail a cure worse than the disease." He considers the major contribution of feminist investigations of rape to be to document the perspective of its victims, showing, for example, that they do not want to be raped.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolut..._Sexuality


Are you really on board with that? O_o
Or do psychologists/anthropologists just try to add legitimacy to their own work by trying to tackle biology/evolution well-beyond their own field?

Quote:
Quote:You should have some kids so that you have something to do. It’s a barren future without children, man. I can tell you that. It’s a real mistake. And you think when you’re nineteen, because you’re so clueless when you’re nineteen. You don’t know a bloody thing. You think...well, I’m not really sure I want children anyways. It’s like, oh, yeah, you can tell how well you’ve been educated. Jesus!

He goes on and on and it gets even worse.  Confused
Who or what is that from?

Without context, it's just non sequitur.

Quote:
Syne Wrote:You didn't mention your parents:

Not my problem if you don't understand basic genetics. You passed on all the traits your children could have inherited from your parents. Any unique variation of those that your brother could call his own are not passed to your children...again, barring incest.

It sounds like you're the one that doesn't understand how it works. My brother is heterosexual but my point was that if homosexuality was genetic, the trait could be passed on through siblings.

You're being so ridiculous. I'm starting to think that you're just fucking with me.

Zinman is right and we've already had this discussion in the past. Nothing ever changes. It's futile.
Now it just sounds like you're backpedaling. Where in, even the vicinity of, that comment was anyone discussing passing on homosexual genetics? Nowhere, that's where. Dodgy

Luckily I know you're not smart enough to be messing with me. If you could even make one coherent scientifically-backed argument, you might have half a chance, but alas.


(Jan 15, 2019 04:13 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote:
Quote:Is it okay to criticize him now that he identifies as straight? Or do you have any similar criticisms of current gays too?

Your decision, go ahead if you want, don’t need my permission. Unless I know your critique I can’t answer second part. What is your criticism?

I’m just sitting back, waiting to see him capitalize. Should start soon.
No, I asked if you are okay criticizing him, now that he's straight, are you just as willing to criticize a gay man?
Or do you think one is acceptable while the other isn't? O_o


(Jan 15, 2019 04:46 AM)Leigha Wrote: How does it ''counter the narrative'' though, if one gradually falls out of attraction when it comes to having same sex partners? For every story that is similar to the guy in the OP, there are many stories that are told from the opposite viewpoint. (straight people who ''gradually become'' gay)

Really? The main cultural narrative isn't that LGBT are born that way? Since when? You might want to let MR know about that.

Usually the only thing they report as gradual is awareness of and acknowledging "who they really are", having lived with some nagging uncertainty beforehand.
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