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Magical Realist
Sep 29, 2018 04:25 AM
(This post was last modified: Sep 29, 2018 04:47 AM by Magical Realist.)
Quote:And what specific evidence would you expect to find for that
LOL! Appearing to me and showing me he is God. That's the minimum we could expect from him. No more of his believers telling us all about him and making desperate excuses for his obvious absence.
Quote:You have to be specific if you really want to assert actual evidence of absence.
Conventional old man with white beard and a halo would do as befits his fatherly reputation.
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Syne
Sep 29, 2018 04:53 AM
(This post was last modified: Sep 29, 2018 04:53 AM by Syne.)
(Sep 29, 2018 04:25 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: Quote:And what specific evidence would you expect to find for that
LOL! Appearing to me and showing me he is God. That's the minimum we could expect from him. No more of his believers telling us all about him and making desperate excuses for his obvious absence. What reason do you have to expect that? Evidence of absence requires a lot more than what you wish or believe "we could expect".
Like I said, evidence of absence requires a positive expectation on par with knowing your keys are absent from your pocket. IOW, you have to have some actually evidence the thing would be expected, and in the case of god, you don't.
Anything else is just a fallacy.
Quote:Quote:You have to be specific if you really want to assert actual evidence of absence.
Conventional old man with white beard with a halo would do as befits his fatherly reputation.
Again, you have zero reason to expect anything of the sort. What you "could expect" is very far from what you do expect because of previous evidence.
"Could expect" is a fallacy.
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Magical Realist
Sep 29, 2018 05:07 AM
(This post was last modified: Sep 29, 2018 05:22 AM by Magical Realist.)
Quote:Like I said, evidence of absence requires a positive expectation on par with knowing your keys are absent from your pocket.
I know as a matter of fact right now there is a glowing green 4 headed elephant absent from my apartment. I've never seen one, but I can still know it is absent from my all my experience. This is common sense.
Quote:Again, you have zero reason to expect anything of the sort. What you "could expect" is very far from what you do expect because of previous evidence.
Right..that's the trouble with a being nobody ever sees or hears from. We just have nothing to go on in terms of appearance. In point of fact I don't expect God to show up anywhere simply because he doesn't exist. Occam's razor dictates that simplest of explanations.
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Syne
Sep 29, 2018 05:24 AM
(This post was last modified: Sep 29, 2018 05:27 AM by Syne.)
(Sep 29, 2018 05:07 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: Quote:Like I said, evidence of absence requires a positive expectation on par with knowing your keys are absent from your pocket.
I know as a matter of fact right now there is a glowing green 4 headed elephant absent from my apartment. I've never seen one, but I can still know it is absent from my all my experience. This is common sense. That is not evidence of absence because you have zero reason to expect such a thing in your apartment.
That is absence of evidence because you've never had any evidence that would lead you to expect any such thing.
Quote:Quote:Again, you have zero reason to expect anything of the sort. What you "could expect" is very far from what you do expect because of previous evidence.
Right..that's the trouble with a being nobody ever sees or hears from. We just have nothing to go on in terms of appearance.
Which is an admission that you cannot have evidence of absence.
(Sep 29, 2018 05:07 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: In point of fact I don't expect God to show up anywhere simply because he doesn't exist. Occam's razor dictates that simplest of explanations.
Again, that's an admission that you have no evidence of absence. That's a bare assertion, at best.
Parsimony depends on how many facts you are attempting to explain, with many well outside of the scope of science.
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Magical Realist
Sep 29, 2018 05:35 AM
(This post was last modified: Sep 29, 2018 05:50 AM by Magical Realist.)
Quote:That is not evidence of absence because you have zero reason to expect such a thing in your apartment
Yes it is. Absence from all my experience is evidence of absence. Unless you seriously want to propose the mysterious unseen existence of glowing green 4 headed elephants now.
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Syne
Sep 29, 2018 06:17 AM
(Sep 29, 2018 05:35 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: Quote:That is not evidence of absence because you have zero reason to expect such a thing in your apartment
Yes it is. Absence from all my experience is evidence of absence. Unless you seriously want to propose the mysterious unseen existence of glowing green 4 headed elephants now.
No, as I already told you, just because you've never experienced a black swan does not mean they do not exist. They might not exist, but your limited experience cannot rule them out.
And 80% of the world is theist, whereas 0% of the world is glowinggreen4headedelephantist. 80% of the world believes they've experienced black swans, and just because you've never seen one, you claim they are wrong. In complete contradiction to your argument for belief in aliens, where even a tiny fraction of people believing is sufficient for you.
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Magical Realist
Sep 29, 2018 06:22 AM
(This post was last modified: Sep 29, 2018 06:26 AM by Magical Realist.)
Quote:And 80% of the world is theist, whereas 0% of the world is glowinggreen4headedelephantist. 80% of the world believes they've experienced black swans, and just because you've never seen one, you claim they are wrong.
None of them have seen him or heard him speaking. He is a belief in their head. That's all. Just like millions of kids who believe in Santa Clause. The complete and total absence of anything like God from the world is evidence that he is not real. It is the most parsimonious explanation for his not being found anywhere.
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Syne
Sep 29, 2018 07:45 AM
(Sep 28, 2018 09:58 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: I was influenced by Sartre and Derrida and Foucault.
Prone to self-harm, in 1948 Foucault allegedly undertook a failed suicide attempt, for which his father sent him to see the psychiatrist Jean Delay at the Sainte-Anne Hospital Center. Obsessed with the idea of self-mutilation and suicide, Foucault attempted the latter several times in ensuing years, praising suicide in later writings.[24] The ENS's doctor examined Foucault's state of mind, suggesting that his suicidal tendencies emerged from the distress surrounding his homosexuality, because same-sex sexual activity was socially taboo in France.[25] At the time, Foucault engaged in homosexual activity with men whom he encountered in the underground Parisian gay scene, also indulging in drug use; according to biographer James Miller, he enjoyed the thrill and sense of danger that these activities offered him.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Fou...E2%80%9351
Sexual Morality and the Law is the transcription of a 1978 radio conversation in Paris between philosopher Michel Foucault, playwright/actor/lawyer Jean Danet, and novelist/gay activist Guy Hocquenghem, debating the idea of abolishing age of consent laws in France.
In 1977, the issue was brought to public attention in France by a petition against age of consent laws addressed to the Parliament, defending the decriminalization of all consented sexual relations between adults and minors below the age of fifteen (the age of consent in France).[1] Foucault stated that the petition was signed by several philosophers including himself
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_Mor...nd_the_Law
Hmm....
(Sep 29, 2018 06:22 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: Quote:And 80% of the world is theist, whereas 0% of the world is glowinggreen4headedelephantist. 80% of the world believes they've experienced black swans, and just because you've never seen one, you claim they are wrong.
None of them have seen him or heard him speaking. He is a belief in their head. That's all. Just like millions of kids who believe in Santa Clause. The complete and total absence of anything like God from the world is evidence that he is not real. It is the most parsimonious explanation for his not being found anywhere. Plenty of people describe seeing and hearing god, especially, but not exclusively, among near-death experiences...as you said, " Patients do it all the time--dying and coming back to life."
Studies have found that that belief, solely in their heads or not, has real world benefits. Seeing as mental illnesses are " associated with distress and/or problems functioning in social, work or family activities", it does not follow that this is delusion. And seeing as most religions believe it is the soul that is the "breath of life" and "image of god", why wouldn't experience of god be internal? Oh right, you believe in disembodied ghosts who do parlor tricks.
Millions of kids have seen Santa. Maybe not THE Santa, but certainly a Santa. And similarly, many religions believe that god can manifest in human form. Not THE god, but certainly a form of god.
You're starting to repeat your bare assertions again. You haven't even been able to describe what "anything like god" would have to be in order to positively find evidence of its absence. Free will is the most parsimonious explanation of god not being physically found, else we'd have irrefutable proof and no sane choice to think otherwise.
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Magical Realist
Sep 29, 2018 07:50 AM
Quote:Millions of kids have seen Santa. Maybe not THE Santa,
Right..lol!
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Syne
Sep 29, 2018 08:15 AM
So of all that all you could refute is one bit, taken out of context. Got it. Great job as usual, man.
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