When does life begin?

[Zinjanthropos]

When does life begin?

The article seems to leave out what I believe is the correct answer.

Life apparently began in some unknown events here on Earth close to 4 billion years ago. (Only a few hundred million years after the Earth formed.) Either that, or it began much earlier somewhere else in the universe and spread here by some unknown means.

Ever since that origin of life, life has continuously existed. There's a continuous chain of life connecting you to your parents (sperm and egg cells are alive), to your grandparents, to your great grandparents, to prehuman hominids a million years ago, to the first chordates that hauled themselves out of the sea, to the first protozoa-like single-celled eukaryotic organisms, and to bacteria and archaea before that.

There were never any gaps in that chain, there was never a moment when life didn't exist.

While life is constantly changing and elaborating, it seems to me to at least potentially be immortal (provided that conditions remain suitable). It's already 4 billion years old and doing just fine.

My sentiments exactly.  Continuous from life's first day..For life Earth is like home or a stopover. How long it's going to stay, can't say.

[Magical Realist]

Lack of brain waves in an embryo is neither permanent nor an ending of existing vital processes, person, or organism. So the term "brain dead" applied to an embryo is conflating two very different and unrelated things.

No it isn't. It's the exact same state--a non-functioning brain. It's as dark inside a fetus brain as it is inside a dead brain. It is the state of not being alive. The fetus before the 25th week is quite literally brain dead.

[Syne]

Lack of brain waves in an embryo is neither permanent nor an ending of existing vital processes, person, or organism. So the term "brain dead" applied to an embryo is conflating two very different and unrelated things.

No it isn't. It's the exact same state--a non-functioning brain. It's as dark inside a fetus brain as it is inside a  dead brain. It is the state of not being alive. The fetus before the 25th week is quite literally brain dead.

Only if you ignore the definition of "death". You cannot have death without first having life (you know, the thing that ceases), so even claiming an embryo dead, you're still affirming it was, at least previously, alive. Comparing superficial qualities of two things does not make them identical. And again, you're conflating some degree of cognitive capacity with the scientific definition of life, even though we have plenty of examples of life without brain waves, e.g. plants, several sea creatures, etc.. Wait, are you saying those organisms have never been alive? Are they some kind of zombie? O_o


Or just listen to Yaz. Life has been continuous since its ultimate origin. Since we've never been able to prove any mechanism for abiogenesis, all the life we know must come from previous life, without interruption. There are no examples of a species reproducing a dead organism that then magically comes to life. But if you find one, be sure to tell us, as that would be a huge scientific discovery.

[Magical Realist]

Only if you ignore the definition of "death". You cannot have death without first having life (you know, the thing that ceases),

Yes we can. A brain without wave activity is brain dead both in the fetus and the expired patient. It's the exact same state. It's the state of not being alive. The brain is in the same turned off state. There is no difference.

[Syne]

Only if you ignore the definition of "death". You cannot have death without first having life (you know, the thing that ceases),

Yes we can. A brain without wave activity is brain dead both in the fetus and the expired patient. It's the exact same state. It's the state of not being alive. The brain is in the same turned off state. There is no difference.

Repeating your bare assertion does nothing to refute the bevy of facts I've given you.

[Magical Realist]

Only if you ignore the definition of "death". You cannot have death without first having life (you know, the thing that ceases),

Yes we can. A brain without wave activity is brain dead both in the fetus and the expired patient. It's the exact same state. It's the state of not being alive. The brain is in the same turned off state. There is no difference.

Repeating your bare assertion does nothing to refute the bevy of facts I've given you.  

It's a simple fact. A brain without brain waves is in the same state before birth and at death. It is brain dead. There is simply no denying this.

[Syne]

Repeating your bare assertion does nothing to refute the bevy of facts I've given you.  

It's a simple fact. A brain without brain waves is in the same state before birth and at death. It is brain dead. There is simply no denying this.

You're repeating yourself again.
If you really think a developing brain is dead, just because an EEG reading would be, that's on you.
It's magical thinking to assume that organic life can come from organic death.

[Magical Realist]

It's magical thinking to assume that organic life can come from organic death.

Happens all the time with the death of any organism in natural conditions. Life from death, and death from life. It's a neverending cycle.

[Syne]

It's magical thinking to assume that organic life can come from organic death.

Happens all the time with the death of any organism in natural conditions. Life from death, and death from life. It's a neverending cycle.

Then show me one example, instead of bloviating vagaries. Something that was dead suddenly coming to life. Because it sounds like you're just equivocating the mundane fact that living organisms consume dead ones...which has nothing to do with a formerly dead organism coming to life (a la the living dead).

[Magical Realist]

Something that was dead suddenly coming to life.

Patients do it all the time--dying and coming back to life. All the cells in your body die and get replaced by new generations of cells.Did you know your tissues start dying the moment you are conceived? Death is just a stage in the process of life. It's called regeneration.

FYI the brain of the fetus isn't dead. It's alive and growing. It's just not functioning yet. That's what is meant by brain dead.