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Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbor’s Wife

#31
Secular Sanity Offline
I’m at the coast. A man is walking towards me with a big smile. I’m thinking about my surroundings—the sights and sounds, the air, the temperature, and where I want to go next. I watched him emerge from his vehicle. It had an out of state plate. He says hello, and I’m almost certain that he’s going to comment on the location. Maybe even ask me for a few suggestions—things to see and do, but, no.  He didn’t talk to me. He talked at me and about me. "Wow! You are stunning." I wasn’t offended but it wasn’t what I was expecting.

Take Martin Buber’s work for example.  He describes an (I-It relation) and an (I-Thou relation). The man made an observation and provided a description. There’s nothing really inherently wrong with that, but I immediately realize that it’s an (I-It relation).

On another occasion, I’m getting ready to hike the lost coast trail. A guy approaches me and asked me if this was my first time. It was. He was really excited and tells me all about the trail. He runs back to his vehicle and gets a few of his sketches. He shows me one of the old Smith cabin. He said that it’s first come-first serve. It’s okay to spend the night there as long as you clean up after yourself. There’s no heat, but there’s fresh water, a shower, and a flush toilet. He wishes me well and heads off in the opposite direction.

The first man drew me as an object within his settings. The second one drew me into our settings.

(Aug 28, 2018 04:28 AM)Syne Wrote: Sex is ONE motivation to make up for a disparity of value offered. The only "cost" involved is perhaps the opportunity cost, since there is not really any cost to a voluntary exchange (win/win).

You’re describing a transactional and instrumental exchange. It collapses a person into something that serves a function.

***The "I-Thou" relation is the pure encounter of one whole unique entity with another in such a way that the other is known without being subsumed under a universal. Not yet subject to classification or limitation, the "Thou" is not reducible to spatial or temporal characteristics. In contrast to this the "I-It" relation is driven by categories of "same" and "different" and focuses on universal definition. An "I-It" relation experiences a detached thing, fixed in space and time, while an "I-Thou" relation participates in the dynamic, living process of an "other".

***Seeming is the essential cowardice of man, the lying that frequently occurs in self-presentation when one seeks to communicate an image and make a certain impression. The fullest manifestation of this is found in the propagandist, who tries to impose his own reality upon others.

***Buber explains the inability to grasp otherness as perceptual inadequacy that is fostered as a defensive mechanism in an attempt to not be held responsible to what is addressing one. Only when the other is accorded reality are we held accountable to him; only when we accord ourselves a genuine existence are we held accountable to ourselves. Both are necessary for dialogue, and both require courageous confirmation of oneself and the other.  Martin Buber
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#32
Syne Offline
(Aug 28, 2018 03:32 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: I’m at the coast. A man is walking towards me with a big smile. I’m thinking about my surroundings—the sights and sounds, the air, the temperature, and where I want to go next. I watched him emerge from his vehicle. It had an out of state plate. He says hello, and I’m almost certain that he’s going to comment on the location. Maybe even ask me for a few suggestions—things to see and do, but, no.  He didn’t talk to me. He talked at me and about me. "Wow! You are stunning." I wasn’t offended but it wasn’t what I was expecting.

Take Martin Buber’s work for example.  He describes an (I-It relation) and an (I-Thou relation). The man made an observation and provided a description. There’s nothing really inherently wrong with that, but I immediately realize that it’s an (I-It relation).
So you want/expect a complete stranger to have an impromptu personal discussion with you? O_o
Was it that he was attractive enough to warrant such desire/expectation, you're that eager to seek validation from strangers, or something else?
Granted, there's no reason to expect anyone to care about a compliment from a stranger, but men have been taught to be "nice" (largely by women), not real. Asking you for suggestions wouldn't really give you a reason to care either.
Strangers do generally need to make some universal assumptions in lieu of individual knowledge, but he indicated interest. He would have been better off making a personal observation/assumption about anything but your looks. The only way to be personal is to be personally relevant, and there's little reason for a stranger to do so without some motive.
Are you saying you would have welcomed that motive?
Aren't you married? O_o
Quote:On another occasion, I’m getting ready to hike the lost coast trail. A guy approaches me and asked me if this was my first time. It was. He was really excited and tells me all about the trail. He runs back to his vehicle and gets a few of his sketches. He shows me one of the old Smith cabin. He said that it’s first come-first serve. It’s okay to spend the night there as long as you clean up after yourself. There’s no heat, but there’s fresh water, a shower, and a flush toilet. He wishes me well and heads off in the opposite direction.

The first man drew me as an object within his settings. The second one drew me into our settings.
No, he drew you into his world (a setting you had not experienced yet), but he was seeking validation. You either didn't provide it or he ran out of things to say.
Again, aren't you married? O_o
Quote:
(Aug 28, 2018 04:28 AM)Syne Wrote: Sex is ONE motivation to make up for a disparity of value offered. The only "cost" involved is perhaps the opportunity cost, since there is not really any cost to a voluntary exchange (win/win).

You’re describing a transactional and instrumental exchange. It collapses a person into something that serves a function.
No, I'm talking about mutual self-respect, where neither person is a doormat and both meet halfway. Is it really that foreign to you? O_o
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#34
Syne Offline
If an I-Thou conversation is personal/known and if an I-It conversation "wasn’t what [you were] expecting", how exactly were you not expecting an impromptu personal discussion? O_o
So why did you expect him to ask for suggestions?
Why else would he ask you for suggestions?
Thought so.
Thought so.
Then why do you think comparable value is somehow a bad thing? O_o
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#35
Secular Sanity Offline
Egad! You’re as dumb as a box of rocks, aren’t you?

You thought so? I told you so.

As Jordan Peterson would say, there’s really no reason that your genetic material should propagate itself into the future. The only way that’s ever going to happen is if you follow someone, put her into the trunk of your car, and chain her up in your parent’s basement, but that’s highly unethical, and I wouldn’t recommend it. Best to stick with your video games.

Aww, don’t worry, little fella. We’ll keep you company. Sad
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#36
Syne Offline
Ah, the expected ad hominems...without any rebut whatsoever. Must have struck a nerve.

Why are you thinking about my genetic propagation anyway? O_o
You're married.
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#37
confused2 Offline
Mail order brides seem to be working out well for my customers.
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#38
Secular Sanity Offline
(Aug 28, 2018 11:05 PM)confused2 Wrote: Mail order brides seem to be working out well for my customers.

Ah, now there's a thought. Sounds like a fair voluntary exchange to me (win/win).

Problem solved. Good job, C2!
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#39
Syne Offline
For beta males whose only value is resources (or a green card), sure.
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