RU...hearing of this misadventure reminded me of something I did that was truly stupid and risky while in charge of some kids. Fortunately no one died. I took my two kids plus the neighbor's two kids, all aged from 6-10 for a hike down the Niagara Gorge. The gorge was formed as Niagara Falls carved it way from its original spot to where it is now, about 20km in last 20000 years. Anyway there are paths to the river that still runs through there, about 300-350 feet down through rocks and timber. So here I am with 4 small kids and I get the brain fart to have us get to a big rock that is in the midst of some very turbulent water. To get to it I and kids had to jump on other boulders protruding up through the water. I held on to the 6 year old's hand in doing so as the others followed behind. Somehow we made it but once there I realized we had to get back. I now fully recognized the danger and took each kid individually, by the hand one at a time, taking extreme care. I remember looking back at the kids I left on the rock as I escorted another to shore. Obviously we made it but when I reminisce I feel like an idiot.
I'm sure this soccer coach will be vilified. He might need a lawyer too.
YazataJul 6, 2018 07:52 PM (This post was last modified: Jul 6, 2018 08:06 PM by Yazata.)
Elon Musk has a crazy scheme to save the Thai cave-kids.
He wants divers to pull a plastic tube through the flooded parts of the cave to the boys. Then have one or more boys enter the tube, seal the end, and pump it full of air like a bouncy house (Elon likes bouncy houses.) The tube would naturally conform itself to the tight spots and the kids could just crawl back through it to safety.
Elon's serious, he's been in touch with the Thai government and is dispatching a crew of his SpaceX and Boring engineers to scope out the situation. He's talking about flying in more pumps and his battery power packs as well. He's trying to get in touch with the divers who went in to get the dimensions of the narrowest spots for tube fabrication.
(Jul 6, 2018 07:52 PM)Yazata Wrote: Elon Musk has a crazy scheme to save the Thai cave-kids.
He wants divers to pull a plastic tube through the flooded parts of the cave to the boys. Then have one or more boys enter the tube, seal the end, and pump it full of air like a bouncy house (Elon likes bouncy houses.) The tube would naturally conform itself to the tight spots and the kids could just crawl back through it to safety.
Elon's serious, he's been in touch with the Thai government and is dispatching a crew of his SpaceX and Boring engineers to scope out the situation. He's talking about flying in more pumps and his battery power packs as well. He's trying to get in touch with the divers who went in to get the dimensions of the narrowest spots for tube fabrication.
The death of that diver just during supply routine, of oxygen canisters, may have made authorities less gung ho about straightforward, conventional rescue and more open to exotic strategy. When all is tallied, there may be more deaths in terms of those trying to setup and facilitate the means for getting them out than with the boys themselves. But better safety protocol is surely being honed out and elaborated on now.
YazataJul 6, 2018 10:00 PM (This post was last modified: Jul 6, 2018 10:43 PM by Yazata.)
(Jul 6, 2018 08:53 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote:
(Jul 6, 2018 07:52 PM)Yazata Wrote: Elon Musk has a crazy scheme to save the Thai cave-kids.
He wants divers to pull a plastic tube through the flooded parts of the cave to the boys. Then have one or more boys enter the tube, seal the end, and pump it full of air like a bouncy house (Elon likes bouncy houses.) The tube would naturally conform itself to the tight spots and the kids could just crawl back through it to safety.
Elon's serious, he's been in touch with the Thai government and is dispatching a crew of his SpaceX and Boring engineers to scope out the situation. He's talking about flying in more pumps and his battery power packs as well. He's trying to get in touch with the divers who went in to get the dimensions of the narrowest spots for tube fabrication.
So my pipe idea wasn't as dumb as I originally thought.
Great minds think alike!
Elon said on Twitter an hour ago that they are currently fabricating some inflatable tubes out of kevlar for abrasion resistance.
What's more, one of SpaceX's engineers was already in Thailand (for vacation?) and is headed to the scene as we speak.
A whole additional pack of engineers is scheduled to set out today or tomorrow. They may be waiting for the tubes to be completed before they depart.
(Jul 6, 2018 09:48 PM)C C Wrote: The death of that diver just during supply routine, of oxygen canisters, may have made authorities less gung ho about straightforward, conventional rescue and more open to exotic strategy.
I hadn't heard about the death, but yeah, that has to have them thinking. This guy was a trained diver in his late 30's, a former Thai Navy Seal. If it could kill him, teenage boys with no cave diving experience might not all survive the passage. Especially if they have to squeeze through tiny passages with tanks and regulators, with next to zero visibility. Give into claustrophobia and you're dead.
Quote:When all is tallied, there may be more deaths in terms of those trying to setup and facilitate the means for getting them out than with the boys themselves.
Yeah, that's a serious risk.
And time is running out. The Monsoon rains are due to start for real at any time and when they do, it's conceivable that the whole cave might flood, including the little beach where the kids are camped out now. So waiting four months for the end of the Monsoon season might not be the best choice.
They need to get the kids out asap and diving doesn't look like the safest method.
Thai government briefing in Bankok says that one SpaceX engineer was already in Thailand on vacation (they don't say, but I assume that he's already at the cave scene, a remote spot), an advance group of two more engineers is currently in the air and should arrive this afternoon (Thai time, I'm assuming).
And six more are set to arrive sometime tomorrow, with some gear that SpaceX is rushing to complete and test.
It's a race against time, since heavy rains are forecast for Sunday and that would increase the water flowing through the cave and the currents in the narrow spots to the point where a rescue might become impossible. It might even fill the cave with water completely. It's basically an underground river, formed by runoff from the monsoons, though it's dry for part of the year when cavers enter it.
It sounds like Musk's crew are moving away from the tube idea to a 'pod' idea, a body-bag made out of tough tear-resistant material (kevlar?), with air supply built in, with dimensions designed to fit through the tightest spots. A boy would only need to lie in it and wouldn't need to be able to swim or use Scuba equipment. The Thai Seals would presumably pull the bags out. The Japan Times says that SpaceX was testing the rushed-to-completion pods Friday evening in a swimming pool with volunteers.
I'm getting the impression that the tube idea isn't so practical when all the real world conditions are taken into account. It would have to be flexible enough to fit through all the tight spots and corners, but stout enough not to tear. The pods can be smaller and made out of more robust stuff. But they are still completing the tubes as their plan-B.
Elon Musk's last twitter post from about 1 am last night Pacific, says: "Some good feedback from cave experts in Thailand. Iterating with them on an escape pod design that might be safe enough to try. Also building an inflatable tube with airlocks. Less likely to work, given tricky contours, but great if it does."
Less than 10 minutes ago, Elon Musk tweeted more details on his 'pods':
"Got more great feedback from Thailand. Primary path is basically a tiny, kid-size submarine using the liquid oxygen transfer tube of Falcon rocket as hull. Light enough to be carried by 2 divers, small enough to get through narrow gaps. Extremely robust."
(Jul 7, 2018 07:13 PM)Yazata Wrote: Less than 10 minutes ago, Elon Musk tweeted more details on his 'pods':
"Got more great feedback from Thailand. Primary path is basically a tiny, kid-size submarine [...] small enough to get through narrow gaps. [...]
Let's hope the kid subs are as lucky as the Seaview when it comes to squeezing through tight crevices with underwater giant menaces pursuing from behind.
Jul 5, 2018 11:12 PM
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