Dozens of octopuses spotted crawling out of the sea on Welsh beach

#11
(Oct 31, 2017 07:14 PM)C C Wrote: Why aliens look like octupuses

Or vice-versa.

One tendency is to imagine space aliens as humanoids basically just like us. (There are imaginative scenarios of them breeding with humans and successfully producing offspring.) Even the mythical 'greys' and 'reptoids' are essentially just like us, anatomically speaking. Two eyes facing forward on a head. Breathing nostrils below. Mouth with teeth below that. Four limbs, two arms and two legs. Bipedal posture. Internal skeleton. Similar musculature.  

The other tendency is to imagine aliens with a totally non-humanoid anatomy. Insects are one way of imagining it, and octopuses are another. Of course, insects and octopuses are Earthlings just as much as we are, especially when we look at their cellular and molecular biology.

I personally expect space aliens to have entirely different body-plans than our own bilaterally symmetrial quadraped chordate plan. What's more, I expect the chemistry in their cells (assuming that they even have cells) to be quite different as well. A fundamentally different molecular genetic system, likely major differences in respiratory metabolism, and lots more.

So I like the octopus/alien analogy because it gets us finally thinking as we probably should be: of aliens as alien.
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#12
How dextrous is a squid/octopus with a tentacle? Is a tentacle a better tool making appendage than a hand? I don't see it. Every time a movie features space traveling tentacled cephalopod aliens I always wonder how they built the ship they arrived in.
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#13
Those interested in octopuses should check out the work of Peter Godfrey-Smith, the Australian philosopher of science.

http://petergodfreysmith.com/

His blog

http://metazoan.net/

And his book on octopus intelligence and its implications for the philosophies of mind and biology.

https://www.amazon.com/Other-Minds-Octop...ng=UTF8&me=

Basically, it's about how higher forms of intelligence have appeared in mammals and birds... and in a third evolutionary line that diverged from the early wormlike ancestors of our own chordate line way back in early Cambrian times when complex multicellular life was just appearing. Unlikely enough, it was the mollusks. Octopuses have a hugely different neuroanatomy from our own, yet they are capable of very complex behaviors and surprisingly complex problem solving. Their ability to signal visually is superhuman. Their skins are covered with chromatophores like high-definition computer screens that they can precisely control. Octopuses are always changing the color and patterns of their displays. They are evidence that even here on Earth, evolution has independently produced intelligence (of a sort) more than once.

They are the closest thing to alien intelligence on this planet.

Here's some photographs from his blog showing Australian octopuses showing their very creepy 'Nosferatu' display where they turn themselves dark and hold their mantles as high as they can. It's apparently meant as a warning. (Anything that looks like that has to be from another planet.)  

http://metazoan.net/33-octopus-signals/
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#14
I still think they were hunting.

"Crawling along out of water is not uncommon for species of octopus that live in the intertidal or near shore,” Finn says. Wood has seen several different species of octopuses getting around this way in the course of his research. As he points out, however, most species of octopuses are nocturnal, so we humans are less likely to catch them creeping out of the ocean.

Why would an octopus struggle across land, when its boneless body seems so unfit for moving out of water? For the chance to find some tasty shellfish and snails, most likely. When the tide goes down, “many octopus species emerge to hunt in the pools of water left behind by the receding tide,” Finn notes."

Land Walking Octopus

Yazata Wrote:Those interested in octopuses should check out the work of Peter Godfrey-Smith, the Australian philosopher of science.

He’s very interesting.  Thanks!

He talked about how his latest paper on "Octlantis" was exaggerated by popular science websites. I tried to read the original paper, but holy crap, it’s $50.00 for 24 hours access.

"Last month our latest octopus paper appeared, describing a new site where octopuses live in unusually large numbers. We call the site, which was discovered last year, “Octlantis.” Soon after it appeared, the paper was picked up by the media, especially by popular science websites. Initially the stories were reasonably accurate, with just a little picturesque exaggeration, but some of them soon began to get out of hand. There are now articles about the site that claim the octopuses are “making art,” building “fences,” and engaging in a range of other behaviors that were not reported in anything we wrote. The episode has become interesting in itself, as it has gone beyond ordinary overstatement induced by the perennial charm of the octopus, and has become a snowballing or self-sustaining process, where the exaggerations in one story feed another story which embellishes things further, and so on."

I was thinking, though, that this might explain why so many were found in the same place.

From your other link…

The scientific seasons octopuses invaded a Welsh beach

"Another intriguing aspect of this event is that so many were found in the same place.

Octopuses generally are thought to be solitary creatures, including Elodone cirrhosa . But a recent finding suggests we may have to reevaluate much of what we know regarding the sociability of these animals."

Maybe high-density occupation and complex social behaviors aren't all that unusual.
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#15
Rolleyes Rolleyes Rolleyes

Here's why you don't see alien octopuses in real life. I don't know why anyone hadn't thought of this before but we fail in our observation to notice a most important cephalopod trait, octopuses are pretty damn good at camouflage. So right now there's probably an alien octopus running around all important gov't offices in the world and brothels too. Nobody even knows they're there. They're probably way more advanced than the octopuses here on Earth and are capable of not only physical invisibility but also of not being detected by anything we could invent. There's one probably attached to your body right now and you don't even know it's there. 

For all I know I could be an octopus alien in reality, my physical form that of a human who's really an octopus in disguise. My girlfriends used to say I had Russian hands and Roman fingers but I never put two and two together to learn the truth about myself, the girls weren't talking about my human ancestry. Ever been busy doing something and said you need more than two hands? Somehow you got the job done and wondered how in hell you managed. No need to wonder anymore, the octopus in you did the trick although you never saw more than your own two hands. 

No wonder Hollywood has a predilection for octopus aliens, it's because they're with us constantly. Subconscious prodding by an octopus companion is all that's needed and voila, squids are squirting an inky language all over the movie screen, a la Arrival. I also wouldn't doubt that what we think is a soul is actually an octopus who's using you in some bizarre way to survive here on Earth, but we don't know that for sure. Some claim your aura is actually evidence of an octopus companion. 

Weren't clamshells once currency in some parts? Coincidence I think not. FSM and the Noodly Appendage... more coincidence? Evidence keeps mounting for octopus aliens, do you have anything to share with us in this regard?
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#16
My guess is that these are Harvey Weinstoctopuses and somewhere up the beach is a Gwyneth Paltroctopus trying to get away from them.
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#17
(Nov 7, 2017 03:35 AM)Yazata Wrote:
(Oct 31, 2017 07:23 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: At least The Independent has the plural of octopus spelled correctly.

I went through life thinking it was 'octopi'.

Then a woman who knows more than me told me that 'octopus' is from the Greek, and 'octopi' is a Latin plural ending. Not right. So she said that 'octopuses' is correct.

Then I recently read somewhere that in Greek, the correct plural should technically be 'octopodes'. Oh well.

I guess that 'octopus' has become an official English language word (even if we borrowed it) and in English, it's 'octopuses'.

(Oct 31, 2017 10:47 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote: Dozens of octopuses spotted crawling out of the sea on Welsh beach

I've heard of whales stranding themselves in large groups, but not octopuses.

Some speculations as to why they did it are here:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-...h-13841394

They appeared after a high tide and may have been feeding close to shore and were caught on the beach as the tide receded. Except that these are a deeper water species of octopus.

Mysterious. Bottom line is that they just don't know.

food sources on the beach would be almost non existant compared to in the water...
i expect it is some type of oil prospecting sonar or a virus

(Nov 7, 2017 04:44 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: How dextrous is a squid/octopus with a tentacle? Is a tentacle a better tool making appendage than a hand? I don't see it. Every time a movie features space traveling tentacled cephalopod aliens I always wonder how they built the ship they arrived in.

yes precisely, while i completely agree with CC Re humans overt anthropromorphic nature, look at potasium & chlorine as good examples.


maybe a water born creature could philisophically rival some of humans best minds, however, if they can not build machines or speak a different language, how would we ever know ?
look at dolphins & how many self proclaim civilised cultures still seek to eat them.


the reality is though humans poses advanced technology, the mind of humans is still just a breath away from the caveman.

(Nov 7, 2017 02:14 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: I still think they were hunting.

"Crawling along out of water is not uncommon for species of octopus that live in the intertidal or near shore,” Finn says. Wood has seen several different species of octopuses getting around this way in the course of his research. As he points out, however, most species of octopuses are nocturnal, so we humans are less likely to catch them creeping out of the ocean.

Why would an octopus struggle across land, when its boneless body seems so unfit for moving out of water? For the chance to find some tasty shellfish and snails, most likely. When the tide goes down, “many octopus species emerge to hunt in the pools of water left behind by the receding tide,” Finn notes."

Land Walking Octopus

Yazata Wrote:Those interested in octopuses should check out the work of Peter Godfrey-Smith, the Australian philosopher of science.

He’s very interesting.  Thanks!

He talked about how his latest paper on "Octlantis" was exaggerated by popular science websites. I tried to read the original paper, but holy crap, it’s $50.00 for 24 hours access.

"Last month our latest octopus paper appeared, describing a new site where octopuses live in unusually large numbers. We call the site, which was discovered last year, “Octlantis.” Soon after it appeared, the paper was picked up by the media, especially by popular science websites. Initially the stories were reasonably accurate, with just a little picturesque exaggeration, but some of them soon began to get out of hand. There are now articles about the site that claim the octopuses are “making art,” building “fences,” and engaging in a range of other behaviors that were not reported in anything we wrote. The episode has become interesting in itself, as it has gone beyond ordinary overstatement induced by the perennial charm of the octopus, and has become a snowballing or self-sustaining process, where the exaggerations in one story feed another story which embellishes things further, and so on."

I was thinking, though, that this might explain why so many were found in the same place.

From your other link…

The scientific seasons octopuses invaded a Welsh beach

"Another intriguing aspect of this event is that so many were found in the same place.

Octopuses generally are thought to be solitary creatures, including Elodone cirrhosa . But a recent finding suggests we may have to reevaluate much of what we know regarding the sociability of these animals."

Maybe high-density occupation and complex social behaviors aren't all that unusual.

Octopi build walls around themselves as camoflage.
the conccept of octopi building walls is there for of no new merit.
birds like penguons build nests out of rocks, some forage them some stealthem from others... they evenly space themselves = math?


Quote:For the chance to find some tasty shellfish and snails, most likely. When the tide goes down, “many octopus species emerge to hunt in the pools of water left behind by the receding tide,” Finn notes."

Octopi are Hunters.
They are not herd/shoal animals.
The premis of scavanging outside water on a beach with no life on it doesnt seem to follow any reasonable process of  food attainment to me.

shelfish dig deep at low tide, not shallow.
snails sit in rock pools not on the sand.
the beach incline is too steep to support rock pools up the beach.

just a thought...
if they have caught some type of virus that prevents them from expelling fluid/water from their skin then they may as a survival response seek to get out of the water.
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