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Transgender People and Military Service

#11
Secular Sanity Offline
(Aug 30, 2017 09:53 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: I see this more from the perspective of the transgender person. The Pentagon spends 600 billion of taxpayer dollars to support  technology and personel designed to kill people. That's all they do. If a tiny fraction is spent on performing a soul-healing surgery on transgender members, so fuckin what? These people didn't ask to be born with broken souls. More power to them if they can find some loophole in the vast transphobic system they are born into that allows them to correct the mistake they just happened to be born with. If joining the military is a means of becoming a whole person, so be it. Is that not the same motive anyone joins the military for? To become a more fulfilled whole person?

Here's another point to bear in mind. The majority of members of the military are not front line warriors "taking a bullet" for their country. They are the vast number of personel behind the scenes that support the warriors with data and technology that enables them to perform their mission. Transgender members largely fill these roles. I myself was an electronics tech in the Navy for 9 years working on communications gear and radar. That was my mission. It was not to take a bullet for my country.

To become a more fulfilled, whole person? Are kidding me? This is the complete opposite of what's found in the military. You become part of a group. Individualism is suppressed. It’s not a safe occupation that encourages independent thinking by any means.  Conformity is no longer an option. Your life is dictated by others. You may be fighting for freedom but you’re giving up your own freedom. You may be fighting to protect the rights of others but you're giving up some of your own rights. You are a resource—a GI (Government Issue). You are the property of the United States. They own you.

A loophole to obtain sex reassignment surgery? Are you kidding me? The military isn’t known for timely or proper medical care.  

I don’t think that anybody should join the military for the benefits, whether it be travel, money, health care, education, etc. The risks outweigh the benefits. You could get killed or injured, or have to kill or injure another person. You could end up suffering from long-term mental or health problems, etc.

It doesn't matter what your MOS is. You're always at risk for deployment.
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#12
Magical Realist Offline
Quote:To become a more fulfilled, whole person? Are kidding me?

No I'm not kidding you. Many people join the military to learn a trade much as I did. And I was successful at it. I also got to see the world on a med cruise, expand my social sphere, and learned the self-discipline from being a service member. There are far more benefits from being in the military than there are risks. That's why people volunteer for service. There's also the GI Bill that gives you benefits to pursue your education while in the military. Many military personel are deployed in humanitarian relief missions. 690 marines have just been deployed to Houston. Others may volunteer for more patriotic reasons. To kill terrorists. But I'd wager that even they are motivated by the benefits as well. Housing and family benefits. Free healthcare. Also when you get out it is easy to find work because people like to hire vets. It isn't all about killing and being killed. It's about becoming a better person and accruing the benefits from that.
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#13
RainbowUnicorn Offline
(Aug 30, 2017 09:53 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: I see this more from the perspective of the transgender person. The Pentagon spends 600 billion of taxpayer dollars to support  technology and personel designed to kill people. That's all they do. If a tiny fraction is spent on performing a soul-healing surgery on transgender members, so fuckin what? These people didn't ask to be born with broken souls. More power to them if they can find some loophole in the vast transphobic system they are born into that allows them to correct the mistake they just happened to be born with. If joining the military is a means of becoming a whole person, so be it. Is that not the same motive anyone joins the military for? To become a more fulfilled whole person?

Here's another point to bear in mind. The majority of members of the military are not front line warriors "taking a bullet" for their country. They are the vast number of personel behind the scenes that support the warriors with data and technology that enables them to perform their mission. Transgender members largely fill these roles. I myself was an electronics tech in the Navy for 9 years working on communications gear and radar. That was my mission. It was not to take a bullet for my country.
Smile

i think the transgender ban is dog whistle social engineering signalling a homophobic administration.
They would ban women & LGBTQ in a heart beat if they thought they could maintain their voting majority & public support...
but they wont because they know the vast majority of modern civilised culture accept LGBTQ people, along with jews & dark skinned people as being part of modern civilised society.

soo they leverage the capitalist profit paradigm as if its a moral norm of society.
using the insurance company profit and psychopathic model of social interaction as an administration normative.
It appears the consistant goal is to set society against its self.
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#14
Secular Sanity Offline
(Aug 31, 2017 02:52 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:
Quote:To become a more fulfilled, whole person? Are kidding me?

No I'm not kidding you. Many people join the military to learn a trade much as I did. And I was successful at it. I also got to see the world on a med cruise, expand my social sphere, and learned the self-discipline from being a service member. There are far more benefits from being in the military than there are risks. That's why people volunteer for service. There's also the GI Bill that gives you benefits to pursue your education while in the military. Many military personel are deployed in humanitarian relief missions. 690 marines have just been deployed to Houston. Others may volunteer for more patriotic reasons. To kill terrorists. But I'd wager that even they are motivated by the benefits as well. Housing and family benefits. Free healthcare. Also when you get out it is easy to find work because people like to hire vets. It isn't all about killing and being killed. It's about becoming a better person and accruing the benefits from that.

It wasn’t designed as a job training program.

They recruit people to serve and protect. They train people to kill. You are not a man, nor a woman, you are a warrior. The military shapes and molds warriors. Its purpose is to defend US values, interests, and objectives. You know the creeds.

The military is not an equal opportunity employer.  They can discriminate against mental and physical disabilities.  They invest money in training, and should be able to deploy any and all service members, if need be.  Military doctors aren’t trained in handling complicated sex reassignment surgeries.  If something were to go wrong, would they get total and permanent disabled veteran benefits? Yep.  

Like I said, they should be allowed to join, but I don't think sex reassignment surgery should be permitted while serving your country.
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#15
RainbowUnicorn Offline
(Aug 31, 2017 03:27 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote:
(Aug 31, 2017 02:52 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:
Quote:To become a more fulfilled, whole person? Are kidding me?

No I'm not kidding you. Many people join the military to learn a trade much as I did. And I was successful at it. I also got to see the world on a med cruise, expand my social sphere, and learned the self-discipline from being a service member. There are far more benefits from being in the military than there are risks. That's why people volunteer for service. There's also the GI Bill that gives you benefits to pursue your education while in the military. Many military personel are deployed in humanitarian relief missions. 690 marines have just been deployed to Houston. Others may volunteer for more patriotic reasons. To kill terrorists. But I'd wager that even they are motivated by the benefits as well. Housing and family benefits. Free healthcare. Also when you get out it is easy to find work because people like to hire vets. It isn't all about killing and being killed. It's about becoming a better person and accruing the benefits from that.

It wasn’t designed as a job training program.

They recruit people to serve and protect.  They train people to kill. You are not a man, nor a woman, you are a warrior.  The military shapes and molds warriors.  Its purpose is to defend US values, interests, and objectives. You know the creeds.

The military is not an equal opportunity employer.  They can discriminate against mental and physical disabilities.  They invest money in training, and should be able to deploy any and all service members, if need be.  Military doctors aren’t trained in handling complicated sex reassignment surgeries.  If something were to go wrong, would they get total and permanent disabled veteran benefits? Yep.  

Like I said, they should be allowed to join, but I don't think sex reassignment surgery should be permitted while serving your country.

so im trying to think of a comparrible model considering the medical cover is not actually government provided. thus it is all profit and loss.
thus... if the reason for the objection is cost, then any type of heart operation for military should be cancelled and they should be instantly dissmissed as they are unable to perform in combat.
the cost of any heart surgery should then be paid for by the private persons own medical insurance that they will have to purchase once they are dismissed.

assuming we are using your reason of unfit to perform combat duties in the field.
what about all the older generals ?
surely they shoudl all be dismissed and have their medical cover cancelled also as they are way too old to perform saely in combat ?

or are you using some type of pre-assumed system of class and privilage that discriminates purely based on your own construct of what may fit the ends that is sought rather than justifying the means(aka terrorism) ?

wanted to add... the reality of the debate of defining the military as a profit and loss model is to define the millitary as a business that requires the need to produce profit.
otherwise EVERYTHING is loss.
and then you simply cant justify anything that does not produce profit.

the consequential result of the assertion is to define the US millitary as mercinarys and that then negates any moral construct of international process, be it terrorism or some type of quantified war paradigm.

without a moral base and code that relates directly to the people whom they supposedly serve, then what are they and for whom are they killing in the name of ?


vastly more complex reality than the average voter is compitent in partaking in i suspect.
it does sell to a mob mentality though that makes easy dog whistle voter flash mobs and reactionary support.

interestingly enough studys done from WWII have clearly defined the survival and compitency level of winning battles to be a facet of battlefield changability.
those who could adapt on the field during the battle survived.
there is plenty of data out there on the web if you wish to find it on those studys conducted by the military.(Re your comment about obedient robot humanoids doing only what they are told etc etc they left that behind the trenches of WWI, honed it in WWII and practiced it after that, now it is a mandatory expectation of modern military capability.. in field adaptability)
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#16
Magical Realist Offline
Quote:It wasn’t designed as a job training program.

They recruit people to serve and protect. They train people to kill. You are not a man, nor a woman, you are a warrior. The military shapes and molds warriors. Its purpose is to defend US values, interests, and objectives. You know the creeds.

You have a very archaic notion of our military. It IS about job training in hundreds of rates from cook to coder to automechanic to medic to construction to radioman. These are jobs we go to school for and they are careers we specialize in. And no they're not all killing warriors. Marines and seals and infantrymen are. But the vast majority are people who do jobs everyday like citizens do. It's not some primitive blood warrior clan. lol!
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#17
Secular Sanity Offline
(Aug 31, 2017 06:57 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote: so im trying to think of a comparrible model considering the medical cover is not actually government provided. thus it is all profit and loss.
thus... if the reason for the objection is cost, then any type of heart operation for military should be cancelled and they should be instantly dissmissed as they are unable to perform in combat.
the cost of any heart surgery should then be paid for by the private persons own medical insurance that they will have to purchase once they are dismissed.

You have to pass a medical exam.  If they know you’re in need of any type of surgery, you won’t get in. Even if you get injured in boot camp, an entry level separation, under most circumstances, doesn’t entitle you to veterans or any medical benefits.

(Aug 31, 2017 07:44 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: You have a very archaic notion of our military. It IS about job training in hundreds of rates from cook to coder to automechanic to medic to construction to radioman. These are jobs we go to school for and they are careers we specialize in. And no they're not all killing warriors. Marines and seals and infantrymen are. But the vast majority are people who do jobs everyday like citizens do. It's not some primitive blood warrior clan. lol!

Veterans' preference does not guarantee a veteran a job.  Some skills may transfer, but military training is designed for military jobs, not to help you get a civilian job.  It’s not a jobs program, a social welfare agency, much less a plastic surgery center.
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#18
Magical Realist Offline
Quote:Veterans' preference does not guarantee a veteran a job. Some skills may transfer, but military training is designed for military jobs, not to help you get a civilian job. It’s not a jobs program, a social welfare agency, much less a plastic surgery center.

You'd be hard pressed to find some rate in the military that doesn't transfer job skills to the civilian world. Working with computers, managerial procedures, safety protocol, all these things carry over. And all your schooling in the military transfers to college credits. Even soldiers and marines who fought in combat have weapons skills that transfer to law enforcement. The military also has special codes to see how your rate transfers occupational skills in the civilian world. Check this out:

https://www.baseops.net/militarybooks/as...reers.html
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#19
Secular Sanity Offline
(Aug 31, 2017 06:08 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: You'd be hard pressed to find some rate in the military that doesn't transfer job skills to the civilian world.

Whether you acquire new skills sets or not, that is not the purpose of the military.

You’re arguing for medical coverage for sex reassignment surgery for active duty members. As it stands, it is not, nor has never been covered for non-active duty Tricare beneficiaries.

It’s not a gender dysphoria clinic, for Christ’s sake.
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#20
Magical Realist Offline
Quote:Whether you acquire new skills sets or not, that is not the purpose of the military

Funny then how recruiters push the point of career opportunities and education thru the GI Bill in trying to get people to sign up.


Quote:You’re arguing for medical coverage for sex reassignment surgery for active duty members. As it stands, it is not, nor has never been covered for non-active duty Tricare beneficiaries.

We're not talking about non-active duty. We're talking about active duty transgender members, for which the surgery was approved back in 2016 by the Pentagon based on a doctor's recommendation.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/...roops.html
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