Today I Found Out…

[Zinjanthropos]

We have a new little friend in the office. A cross cut paper shredder.
Give it paper and it goes:-
Grobble grobble grobble grobble grobble.
Paper with a staple in:-
Grobble snickle grobble grobble grobble.
Paper with a paperclip in:-
Grobble snakka grobble grobble grobble.
In the silence that follows the grobbling an empath like myself can here it calling
"FEED ME".
I think we need a rule that it can only be turned on when two or more people of sound mind are present.

Sitting at my desk one day when a member of the cleaning staff came by. She leaned over to pick up my waste basket and her unclipped tie fell forwards onto the feed tray teeth of my nearby paper shredder. That triggered an automatic response from the machine which proceeded to draw her in towards it. I managed to pull the plug just as it got to her neck. Don't think it might have cut her throat but maybe strangle her, especially if she was alone. Needless to say that machine and all other shredders were banned from under the desk. Cleaners were no longer permitted to wear ties or anything that hung from the neck while they worked. And yet people grumbled because I brought the issue forward to Health & Safety.

[Secular Sanity]

Today I found out that Syne feels that respect includes a callous disregard for the truth. That we should respect other people’s opinions on how the universe works no matter how inaccurate they may be.  That we should lie to our friends in order to protect their feelings.

Well, that’s all right
Because I love the way you lie
I love the way you lie
I love the way you lie
 
With friends like you...

[confused2]

I can't help noticing that that Syne is of the opinion that he should tell what he believes to be the truth regardless of how popular or acceptable that truth might be. And what he says is that one should not tell the truth if one seeks popularity and 'acceptability'. For the purposes of this post it would be nice if I could dispense some wisdom based on a lifetime of knowing popular and acceptable people but the reality is that them and me just don't seem to move in the same circles. Of course this forum might be a complete change...mmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Syne]

...but you're just being a petulant child, playing tit for tat, and undermining any credibility you may have had in presuming you had the high ground.

• Don’t get greedy. Tit-for-Tat can never beat another strategy. But it never allows itself to take a beating, ensuring it skips the brutal losses of two “evil” strategies fighting against each other. It actively seeks out win-win situations instead of gambling for the higher payoff.
• Be nice. The single best predictor of whether a strategy would do well was if they were never the first to defect. Some tried to emulate Tit-for-Tat but with a twist – throwing in the occasional defection to up the score. It didn’t work.
• Reciprocate, and forgive. Other programs tended to cooperate with Tit-for-Tat since it consistently rewarded cooperation and punished defection. And Tit-for-Tat easily forgives – no matter how many defections it has seen, if a program decides to cooperate, it will join them and reap the rewards.
• Don’t get too clever. Tit-for-Tat is perfectly transparent, and it becomes obvious that it is very, very difficult to beat. There are no secrets, and no hypocrisy – Tit-for-Tat gets along very well with itself, unlike strategies biased toward deception.

Tit for tat isn't equivalent to the golden rule.
"The Golden Rule differs from the maxim of reciprocity captured in do ut des—"I give so that you will give in return"—and is rather a unilateral moral commitment to the well-being of the other without the expectation of anything in return." - wiki
The golden rule is not retaliatory.

There is no "best" strategy.  A person must figure out his opponent's strategy and then pick a strategy that is best suited for the situation.

*steps towards you
*cocks head to one side

Hey, if you consider your "friends" as "opponents"...

Today I found out that Syne feels that respect includes a callous disregard for the truth. That we should respect other people’s opinions on how the universe works no matter how inaccurate they may be.  That we should lie to our friends in order to protect their feelings.
 
With friends like you...

That's funny. It seems the longer I go without posting the more bullshit SS has to make up in the hopes I'll come pay her some attention. Sad really.

I can't help noticing that that Syne is of the opinion that he should tell what he believes to be the truth regardless of how popular or acceptable that truth might be. And what he says is that one should not tell the truth if one seeks popularity and 'acceptability'. For the purposes of this post it would be nice if I could dispense some wisdom based on a lifetime of knowing popular and acceptable people but the reality is that them and me just don't seem to move in the same circles. Of course this forum might be a complete change...mmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Apparently someone's never heard the adage "if you have nothing good to say..."
SS is also talking about her purported "friends"...not anonymous strangers online.

[Secular Sanity]

Apparently someone's never heard the adage "if you have nothing good to say..."

"If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

Sounds like intellectual cowardice to me. Isn’t withholding the truth the same as lying?

SS is also talking about her purported "friends"...not anonymous strangers online.

Is the truth something you can only afford to tell to anonymous strangers, Syne?  If you have to lie to your friends then maybe they’re not really your friends.

[Syne]

Apparently someone's never heard the adage "if you have nothing good to say..."

"If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

Sounds like intellectual cowardice to me. Isn’t withholding the truth the same as lying?

It's called manners, tact, and socialization...where every stray thought doesn't need to be spewed like Tourette's syndrome tics.
There's also a significant difference between withholding the truth when asked a direct question (lying) and refraining from proffering unsolicited opinion.
It's also called "keeping one's own council".

"We are masters of the unsaid words, but slaves of those we let slip out." - Winston Churchill

Maybe you don't bother to consider the feelings of your supposed friends over your own arrogant need to be right, or prove your intellect, or something. Wise people keep their own council because they aren't so insecure that they feel they have to prove themselves at every opportunity.

SS is also talking about her purported "friends"...not anonymous strangers online.

Is the truth something you can only afford to tell to anonymous strangers, Syne?  If you have to lie to your friends then maybe they’re not really your friends.

I don't care about the feelings of strangers, but I do care about those of my friends. I guess you don't make that distinction.
Again, it's not about lying....merely keeping some opinions to myself (unless directly asked...and then finding a tactful way to express it).

[confused2]

Anyone else have a problem with muttrin? Muttrin at the past, the present, the future, at ghosts and sometimes just muttrin.

[Syne]

What's muttrin?

[C C]

Anyone else have a problem with muttrin? Muttrin at the past, the present, the future, at ghosts and sometimes just muttrin.

An wipin' his face, and mutt'rin -- mutt'rin. And at last he says, "I shall go" says he, "And kermoonicate this to Misther Lee."

An old bachelor once told me that he did it to ensure his vocal chords got exercise. Claiming that there were times when he didn't talk to anyone for a month. Always brought a dog along with him when he went walking beside the road, so he could assert he was grumbling at the critter.

As old as it is, there ought to be enough ghosts in Motarzyno after centuries of deaths, murder, and mayhem.

- - -

[Secular Sanity]

Anyone else have a problem with muttrin? Muttrin at the past, the present, the future, at ghosts and sometimes just muttrin.

Muttering?  I do it, but I don't think it's a problem.  It makes my thoughts clearer.