Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5

The morality behind veganism

#11
Leigha Offline
Yes, but that's not what motivates my desire to turn away from dairy and meat - it might be that way for some who are motivated towards veganism, but animals do experience and feel pain. Do you think that they don't? Do you think that humans have a tendency to push their own feelings and human attributes onto animals? Have you ever owned a dog or cat?

Kind of odd that you would assume anthropomorphism when there is a lot of factual evidence to support the inhumane treatment of animals at many of the US and Canadian dairy and cattle farms. Unless you think everyone who considers these practices to be inhumane to be under the influence of anthropomorphism. lol
Reply
#12
Syne Offline
Where did I say animals do not feel pain? Confinement does not necessarily cause physical pain, and any mental anguish can only be anthropomorphically imagined. Humans very clearly do have a tendency to attribute human characteristics to animals. And yes, I do own a dog. And? Do you assume that someone who doesn't overly-anthropomorphize animals is somehow incapable of caring for an animal? I don't feel some misguided need to attribute loving feelings to my dog to appreciate its company nor account for its behavior towards me.

Where did I say there is no inhumane treatment? I said, "in the case of mere confinement". There are plenty of things outside of confinement that are inhumane.

You seem to be making a lot of unfounded assumptions.
Reply
#13
Leigha Offline
It's unfortunate but not surprising that people when faced with uncomfortable truths, look for other explanations as to mitigate the sting of those uncomfortable truths.

I'm just sharing pertinent information and my own moral view of it. If people don't share the same moral view, that's fine. But, at least have a good reason for not sharing the same moral view - it shouldn't be because you choose to disbelieve that it's happening.
Reply
#14
Syne Offline
Wow! Apparently you can't even read now. I just said, "There are plenty of things outside of confinement that are inhumane."

If you have to ignore this to quell your own cognitive dissonance, that's fine. But at least be able to support your views. It shouldn't just be because you anthropomorphize animals.
Reply
#15
stryder Offline
(Oct 8, 2016 09:27 PM)Syne Wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by "tainted", but GMOs have not proven harmful to humans. Are you an anti-vaxer as well? And "abuse" (at least in cases of mere confinement) would seem to imply some awareness in animals we have no evidence for. Most anthropomorphizing is not scientifically justified.

There was some news article some time back in regards to a GMO crop that was suppose to be systemically altered to cause a particular pest not to like consuming it, however while it worked in the laboratory, it wasn't working in the field.  It makes you wonder if some of the GM sales persons are selling snake oil.  After all if it's patented, it must be a better version right?



On the subject of Veganism:
I've been Vegan for about two years (vegetarian for decades before that). The main reason for changing was a mixture of not wanting egg in my diet (I've never got on with it as a food source, could only stand it when used in cake mixtures, but some major over thought pretty much ruined it even as that since an egg eventually would be a chicken if fertile.) As for milk, I just reasoned that it's mostly fats and that technically it's not healthy. (although it does contain a lot of calcium.) It took me a while to find a Cheese alternative but apparently there is a fair vegan selection available if you know where to look.

One main concern with being Vegan though is to make sure that I take vitamin (and mineral) supplements. It's only in recent years that the knowledge of how important it is to make up for a loss in such things within a varied diet can contribute to all manner of neurological and immune disorders.
Reply
#16
Syne Offline
(Oct 9, 2016 01:22 AM)stryder Wrote: There was some news article some time back in regards to a GMO crop that was suppose to be systemically altered to cause a particular pest not to like consuming it, however while it worked in the laboratory, it wasn't working in the field.  It makes you wonder if some of the GM sales persons are selling snake oil.  After all if it's patented, it must be a better version right?

No doubt researches in that field are just as likely to be biased in favor of their expected results as in any other field. And most products of any kind are hyped to some extent.
Reply
#17
Leigha Offline
(Oct 9, 2016 01:05 AM)Syne Wrote: Wow! Apparently you can't even read now. I just said, "There are plenty of things outside of confinement that are inhumane."

If you have to ignore this to quell your own cognitive dissonance, that's fine. But at least be able to support your views. It shouldn't just be because you anthropomorphize animals.

I understood you, but it implies that you don't think confinement is (also) inhumane. Perhaps, I misunderstood, but that's how it reads.

(Oct 9, 2016 01:22 AM)stryder Wrote:
(Oct 8, 2016 09:27 PM)Syne Wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by "tainted", but GMOs have not proven harmful to humans. Are you an anti-vaxer as well? And "abuse" (at least in cases of mere confinement) would seem to imply some awareness in animals we have no evidence for. Most anthropomorphizing is not scientifically justified.

There was some news article some time back in regards to a GMO crop that was suppose to be systemically altered to cause a particular pest not to like consuming it, however while it worked in the laboratory, it wasn't working in the field.  It makes you wonder if some of the GM sales persons are selling snake oil.  After all if it's patented, it must be a better version right?



On the subject of Veganism:
I've been Vegan for about two years (vegetarian for decades before that).  The main reason for changing was a mixture of not wanting egg in my diet (I've never got on with it as a food source, could only stand it when used in cake mixtures, but some major over thought pretty much ruined it even as that since an egg eventually would be a chicken if fertile.)  As for milk, I just reasoned that it's mostly fats and that technically it's not healthy.  (although it does contain a lot of calcium.)  It took me a while to find a Cheese alternative but apparently there is a fair vegan selection available if you know where to look.

One main concern with being Vegan though is to make sure that I take vitamin (and mineral) supplements. It's only in recent years that the knowledge of how important it is to make up for a loss in such things within a varied diet can contribute to all manner of neurological and immune disorders.

Almond milk actually offers more calcium than cow milk, and tastes really good. Less calories, as well. Cow milk really isn't good for us, in general.

Becoming a vegan, it is going to be challenging, but I have vegan friends who will help me with nutritious recipes. That's cool stryder, that you've adopted this lifestyle for the past two years.  Cool Do you grow any of your own vegetables?
Reply
#18
Zinjanthropos Offline
The Vegan cult, I mean culture, is actually depending upon science to help ease the suffering of sentient beasts. At the extremist end there is belief that we are now capable of genetically modifying predatory animals so they eat their veggies. Look up Stijn Breuers, he seems to think we can do anything (He was destroyed at the TSF dot.com site). Unfortunately some of his ideas, like easing suffering of the sentient, will come at the expense of the non-sentient along with various ecosystems. Personally I can't wait to watch the mighty eagle swoop down upon an unsuspecting turnip patch. Petri dish hamburger, I'll get used to it. No more terror when swimming shark infested waters. Kind of reminds me of the print my grandmother hung on her wall, the idyllic Garden of Eden scene in which all of Earth's animals are lounging around the pond without bloodshed. Is Veganism trying to re-establish the G of E?
Reply
#19
Syne Offline
(Oct 9, 2016 02:32 AM)Leigha Wrote:
(Oct 9, 2016 01:05 AM)Syne Wrote: Wow! Apparently you can't even read now. I just said, "There are plenty of things outside of confinement that are inhumane."

If you have to ignore this to quell your own cognitive dissonance, that's fine. But at least be able to support your views. It shouldn't just be because you anthropomorphize animals.

I understood you, but it implies that you don't think confinement is (also) inhumane. Perhaps, I misunderstood, but that's how it reads.

Are human prisons inhumane?


Quote:Almond milk actually offers more calcium than cow milk, and tastes really good. Less calories, as well. Cow milk really isn't good for us, in general.

Almond milk does not naturally contain calcium, nor is it a good source of protein. It is fortified with calcium to market it as a milk substitute. Do your research.
Reply
#20
Leigha Offline
(Oct 9, 2016 03:38 AM)Syne Wrote:
(Oct 9, 2016 02:32 AM)Leigha Wrote:
(Oct 9, 2016 01:05 AM)Syne Wrote: Wow! Apparently you can't even read now. I just said, "There are plenty of things outside of confinement that are inhumane."

If you have to ignore this to quell your own cognitive dissonance, that's fine. But at least be able to support your views. It shouldn't just be because you anthropomorphize animals.

I understood you, but it implies that you don't think confinement is (also) inhumane. Perhaps, I misunderstood, but that's how it reads.

Are human prisons inhumane?


Quote:Almond milk actually offers more calcium than cow milk, and tastes really good. Less calories, as well. Cow milk really isn't good for us, in general.

Almond milk does not naturally contain calcium, nor is it a good source of protein. It is fortified with calcium to market it as a milk substitute. Do your research.

Pig farm confinement is a bit different than the confinement in prisons, although some prisons are definitely inhumane. Humans get to leave their cell, in most cases depending on their crimes, exercise, and socialize outside of their cells - but the pigs never leave their confined cell that doesn't let them even turn around. It's that cramped. Do your research. They're called gestation crates, and they're slowly being outlawed but not fast enough.


[Image: gestation-crates.jpg]
[Image: gestation-crates.jpg]




And I realize that about almond milk, but feel free to drink cow's milk all you like.  Are you a dairy farmer, by chance?

Big Grin

(Oct 9, 2016 02:46 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: The Vegan cult, I mean culture, is actually depending upon science to help ease the suffering of sentient beasts. At the extremist end there is belief that we are now capable of genetically modifying predatory animals so they eat their veggies. Look up Stijn Breuers, he seems to think we can do anything (He was destroyed at the TSF dot.com site). Unfortunately some of his ideas, like easing suffering of the sentient, will come at the expense of the non-sentient along with various ecosystems. Personally I can't wait to watch the mighty eagle swoop down upon an unsuspecting turnip patch. Petri dish hamburger, I'll get used to it. No more terror when swimming shark infested waters. Kind of reminds me of the print my grandmother hung on her wall, the idyllic Garden of Eden scene in which all of Earth's animals are lounging around the pond without bloodshed. Is Veganism trying to re-establish the G of E?

LOL

There's always those who are quite radical and I don't intend to become that type of vegan. (but I have respect for why some have chosen the radical path) My intent with this thread is to just bring awareness about an industry that is relevant to our everyday diets and lifestyles and see others' thoughts about the morality behind veganism. Abuse/neglect of animals so that farmers can mass produce dairy and meat products is not humane, and should be banned. I'd say though that there's no shame at all in eating dairy products and beef/chicken from humane farms, that work hard to treat their animals well, and don't add growth hormones and other synthetics, to their livestock. What's disconcerting about it all is that the FDA approves steroid growth hormones for the use in sheep, beef cattle, etc. - both natural and synthetic forms. 

Gives a whole new meaning to 'you are what you eat.'
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Taxes, corporations, and morality Syne 4 924 Jan 3, 2018 01:36 AM
Last Post: Syne
  Are we a bit vague about teaching morality to children? confused2 42 5,486 Oct 1, 2017 09:43 PM
Last Post: Syne



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)