Men as victims of (sexual) harassment in the workplace.

#11
(Sep 6, 2016 08:25 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: I was wondering how people felt about this situation.  I know of a boy that was 14, who had sex with a woman that was 20.  Here in California the age of consent is 18.  She had a child with him and he was ordered to pay child support.  Do you think it’s fair to force a statutory rape victim to pay child support?

That does seem very unusual. 
It would be interesting to read that transcript.
Which of the two initiated the sex?  Dodgy
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#12
(Sep 6, 2016 09:00 PM)scheherazade Wrote: That does seem very unusual. 
It would be interesting to read that transcript.
Which of the two initiated the sex?  Dodgy

I’m not sure.  I do know that she provided him with alcohol.  In this case, he petitioned for custody when he turned 18 and won.  He’s a great dad.  He’s 21 now.  It’s not really unheard of, though.  It happens quite a bit.  This case below established a precedent.

"It is one of the earlier cases now cited in U.S. child support guidelines which say that in every case that has addressed the issue the court has decided that an underage boy is liable for the support of his child even when the conception was the result of statutory rape by the mother.

The court stated that the state's interest in ensuring that a minor receives child support outweighed its interest in potentially deterring sexual crimes against minors."

They determined that the rape was irrelevant and that the child support was not owed to the rapist but rather to the child.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermesmann_v._Seyer
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#13
Thank you for the link.

So it started out as a relationship between a minor and a juvenile looking after him.

Quote:Hermesmann was a babysitter for Shane Seyer during 1987 and 1988. When 16 she had begun a sexual relationship with Seyer when he was 12 years old.[2] When she was 17 and he was 13, she became pregnant and their daughter was born in 1989.[3] Criminal charges had been brought against Hermesmann accusing her of "engaging in the act of sexual intercourse with a child under sixteen" whilst she herself was a juvenile. In the event she stipulated as a juvenile offender to "contributing to a child's misconduct" which is not a sexual offense.[


That does make matters a trite more murky.
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#14
(Sep 6, 2016 10:26 PM)scheherazade Wrote: So it started out as a relationship between a minor and a juvenile looking after him.

Yes, but quite a few of the other cases are adult women having sex with underage boys.

And if the tables were turned, can you foresee the court giving custody to an adult male having had sex with an underage female, and then ordering her to pay support? It would never happen. I don’t think that they would ever be awarded custody, much less support.
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#15
It would be very interesting to know how the Canadian judicial system would have determined the outcome in such a case.

Long has it been argued that we do not have a 'justice system', we have a 'legal system'.

In Canada, we do have spousal support cases where the woman pays support to the husband so who knows what the outcome might be.
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#16
(Sep 6, 2016 08:25 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: I was wondering how people felt about this situation.  I know of a boy that was 14, who had sex with a woman that was 20.  Here in California the age of consent is 18.  She had a child with him and he was ordered to pay child support.  Do you think it’s fair to force a statutory rape victim to pay child support?

A quick note - I'm actually appalled we've come to the point where it would have even been considered statutory rape. 

When I were a lad, an older woman coming onto you was... quite titillating. Geez, I remember one of my mom's friends who probably wouldn't have been adverse had the opportunity come up. Yet if my own Mrs Robinson had come to pass, and had someone found out in this day and age, they'd have thrown the poor woman in jail for stat rape, or at the very least put her on trial and embarrassed the living hell out of her. 
Ridiculous. 

The first questions most lads would ask is "what did she look like"? 
I mean, seriously. How the hell did the thing about Mary Beth Haglin get to court? One look at her, and everyone knows it wasn't any form of rape. 

You hear all these boys in court saying they were seduced by older women, it's led to them having difficulties forming relationships, etc etc and you know damned well it's probably coached by the lawyers.

To be completely honest, in many cases I don't think the situation is all that different among young girls with older men. You only have to listen in on schoolyard conversations among teenage girls about this teacher or that one to know that in many instances, "rape" is just a word the lawyers came up with afterwards, and the descriptions of mental anguish are concocted under pressure. 



Except when they aren't.
And that, of course, is a part of what makes rape cases so difficult to prosecute.
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#17
I am a woman and have experienced sexual interference by a step-father and it caused me huge anxiety and trust difficulties to this day as it happened during that period of time when women's concerns were not accorded much respect and compounded by the fact that my mother was blindly in love with the perpetrator. Fortunately the attentions were inappropriate touching and did not proceed to more because I became very good at staying away from the man and avoiding encounters in narrow doorways etc. I was fearful for my life if my jealous mother ever found out though in the end she surprised me and when questioned, I told the truth and she sent him packing.

My concern in today's instant information act is for the woman who comes on to a man and if her attentions are not reciprocated, becomes malicious and decides to charge HIM with inappropriate conduct. Even when vindicated, this leaves a lasting blemish on the man's reputation and is part of what initiated my interest in starting this thread.

Additionally, I work graveyard shift with predominantly fellows as co-workers. We have had several female workers cycle through over the years and some of them have not been an asset to the cause, wearing clothing better suited to a yoga class and spending more time in batting their eyelashes and in conversation not related to work. (We have also had a few that were awesome and set the proper tone and pace because it still rankles a fellow if a woman can work circles around him in the pack and carry department, lol.)

Maintaining equality and professionalism in the workplace between the genders is more challenging than some might appreciate.
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#18
(Oct 29, 2016 09:59 PM)scheherazade Wrote: My concern in today's instant information act is for the woman who comes on to a man and if her attentions are not reciprocated, becomes malicious and decides to charge HIM with inappropriate conduct. Even when vindicated, this leaves a lasting blemish on the man's reputation and is part of what initiated my interest in starting this thread.

Yep, the lasting blemish is similar to the backfire effect. We don’t usually alter our opinions when facts are presented. We just incorporate them into our original belief. Most of us will still think there’s some element of truth to the accusations. I think it’s easier to believe the so-called victim. Why would she lie? It’s hard to imagine someone making a false allegation when the consequences are so extreme, but it is quite common.
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#19
(Sep 6, 2016 08:25 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: I was wondering how people felt about this situation.  I know of a boy that was 14, who had sex with a woman that was 20.  Here in California the age of consent is 18.  She had a child with him and he was ordered to pay child support.  Do you think it’s fair to force a statutory rape victim to pay child support?

Not according to my experience.  I was very impulsive at that age, and knew practically nothing compared to today.
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#20
At my company, we all had to attend a sexual harassment webinar, and in it, it mainly showed women as the victims of workplace harassment. There is still this idea that men should ''like'' it, and even when we see in the news, female teachers who are seducing their underage students, many guys will say ''wow, I wish I had a teacher like THAT, when I was in school.'' Things are slowly changing, but there is a double standard for sure when it comes to harassment being taken seriously by men, as opposed to women. Men should be able to report it without reproach or ridicule, just like women should be able to report it. But, I'd say where both genders struggle, is being taken seriously by anyone at all. When we look at sexual harassment cases that are in the political arena, many of those women who came forward weren't taken seriously, or were seen as trying to ruin a man's career in politics. I don't think either side should leap to convicting someone before all the facts are presented. There are some people, both men and women, who do falsely accuse their employers of harassment, as well. So, have to be careful to make sure all the facts are presented, before making a conclusion.
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