7 hours ago
(This post was last modified: 7 hours ago by C C.)
I've never watched Friends to any significant degree, either. And Norman Lear shows do look dated because of the very topicality that prodded viewers to watch them back then. Seinfeld did play on all sorts of things that would be taboo now to current Woke authorities, but even the studio suits didn't consider those to be "controversial issues" in the '90s.
RELATED: Patricia Heaton on the once-secret 3,000-member cabal in Hollywood
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THE DAILY HERETIC (with guest Patricia Heaton)
https://youtu.be/mv3E9kJOxX4
VIDEO EXCERPTS: But you have spoken about writer rooms becoming very touchy about politics.
I think so many writers and actors would say they can't do the comedy today that they were able to do back then. With Seinfeld you'd probably hear the same thing.
There are these clips on YouTube of young people watching old segments of a show called All in the Family. Where Carroll O'Connor played a character called Archie Bunker, who was really sort of racist. And they can't believe what they were seeing in these clips.
And I think the problem with that show, is it's not that racism was presented as something positive. It's just that he was so lovable. You know, it was really weird that audiences fell in love with this guy. But it was just a funny show and it really made fun of that stuff, and you can't do that anymore. Perhaps there's a little pushback now from stand-up comedians, maybe, but that's it.
With Raymond and The Middle, those shows were very family-oriented. So politics rarely came in. Never on Raymond. You know. Philip Rosenthal the creator, was very clear about never doing anything topical. Because he didn't want to age the show. Not that he didn't have his own political opinions. He just didn't want the show to ever feel like, "Oh, that was back then in the '90s because that's the things they were talking about."
And as you see, the show continues to just go on and on, and new audiences are finding it because it's evergreen. Because family, marriage, kids, in-laws, and those are things that the whole world can relate to everywhere in the world, every generation. It doesn't really change. And so that's the beauty, and that's truly great writing.
The same with The Middle where it's a family in Indiana, and they're just dealing with not having very much money and trying to raise their kids and living from paycheck to paycheck. And that's really relatable, but it's still a positive show about how important family is no matter what your circumstances are.
I've seen people, as you say, they look online, and they're looking at Friends as well. And there are jokes about the Chandler's mother or father, the trans father. Things like that, I suppose, are looking dated to a later generation. But I don't know why they can't understand that it is a product of its time.
You know, I've never watched Friends.
Oh, wow. Because when was Friends, in the 90s?
Same time as Raymond, I guess. Maybe it started just before. [...] So I kind of missed the 90s because I was raising my kids and working.
[...] You mentioned young writers rejecting a character as being homophobic.
Yeah, there was one incident that I heard about where the character was like a former Marine who didn't like hugging, was very uncomfortable with it. And the younger writers in the room said, "You can't write that because it's homophobic." And the older writers were saying, but how is he going to make a journey to get to a place where he's comfortable just hugging another person if you don't start him there?
You have to have the conflict. So that is an issue where somebody doesn't understand character development as a writer, because your politics and your feelings are getting in the way of writing truthfully. That's a problem because comedy especially comes from pain. All comedy comes from pain and struggle...
They despise our brand of comedy ... https://youtu.be/mv3E9kJOxX4
https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/mv3E9kJOxX4
RELATED: Patricia Heaton on the once-secret 3,000-member cabal in Hollywood
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
THE DAILY HERETIC (with guest Patricia Heaton)
https://youtu.be/mv3E9kJOxX4
VIDEO EXCERPTS: But you have spoken about writer rooms becoming very touchy about politics.
I think so many writers and actors would say they can't do the comedy today that they were able to do back then. With Seinfeld you'd probably hear the same thing.
There are these clips on YouTube of young people watching old segments of a show called All in the Family. Where Carroll O'Connor played a character called Archie Bunker, who was really sort of racist. And they can't believe what they were seeing in these clips.
And I think the problem with that show, is it's not that racism was presented as something positive. It's just that he was so lovable. You know, it was really weird that audiences fell in love with this guy. But it was just a funny show and it really made fun of that stuff, and you can't do that anymore. Perhaps there's a little pushback now from stand-up comedians, maybe, but that's it.
With Raymond and The Middle, those shows were very family-oriented. So politics rarely came in. Never on Raymond. You know. Philip Rosenthal the creator, was very clear about never doing anything topical. Because he didn't want to age the show. Not that he didn't have his own political opinions. He just didn't want the show to ever feel like, "Oh, that was back then in the '90s because that's the things they were talking about."
And as you see, the show continues to just go on and on, and new audiences are finding it because it's evergreen. Because family, marriage, kids, in-laws, and those are things that the whole world can relate to everywhere in the world, every generation. It doesn't really change. And so that's the beauty, and that's truly great writing.
The same with The Middle where it's a family in Indiana, and they're just dealing with not having very much money and trying to raise their kids and living from paycheck to paycheck. And that's really relatable, but it's still a positive show about how important family is no matter what your circumstances are.
I've seen people, as you say, they look online, and they're looking at Friends as well. And there are jokes about the Chandler's mother or father, the trans father. Things like that, I suppose, are looking dated to a later generation. But I don't know why they can't understand that it is a product of its time.
You know, I've never watched Friends.
Oh, wow. Because when was Friends, in the 90s?
Same time as Raymond, I guess. Maybe it started just before. [...] So I kind of missed the 90s because I was raising my kids and working.
[...] You mentioned young writers rejecting a character as being homophobic.
Yeah, there was one incident that I heard about where the character was like a former Marine who didn't like hugging, was very uncomfortable with it. And the younger writers in the room said, "You can't write that because it's homophobic." And the older writers were saying, but how is he going to make a journey to get to a place where he's comfortable just hugging another person if you don't start him there?
You have to have the conflict. So that is an issue where somebody doesn't understand character development as a writer, because your politics and your feelings are getting in the way of writing truthfully. That's a problem because comedy especially comes from pain. All comedy comes from pain and struggle...
They despise our brand of comedy ... https://youtu.be/mv3E9kJOxX4