Article The ancients were likely "direct realists." Did dreaming challenge this view?

[C C]

The Dreams of Ancient Human
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/...ent-humans

KEY POINTS: For most of human history, humans were hunter-gatherers, busy obtaining food and shelter. Ancient humans most likely believed the world was exactly as it was perceived ("direct realism"). The brain evolved to deal with the needs of everyday life (survival) and did not evolve to understand itself. But the everyday experience of having a dream could have challenged this "direct realism."

EXCERPTS: . . . Today, thanks to advances in science and philosophy, we know that we perceive things as they are because of sophisticated processing in the brain. These percepts are an achievement of the brain and its 120 billion neurons. Sure, there are objects out there, but they are not exactly how they seem to us. They seem to be one way or another because of how our brain “represents” these objects.

Regarding taste, sugar = “good” while hydrogen peroxide = “bad.” A good example is heat. Thanks to advancements in science, we know that heat is simply molecular motion. The more motion, the more heat. This is the kinetic theory of heat. But no one experiences heat as motion, in the same way that no one experiences the color blue as simply being a higher frequency than that of red. (In physics, the difference between red and blue is simply a quantitative one, involving frequency; for us, the difference is qualitative—and somewhat inexplicable.)

Bananas are tasty only to brains. Its flavor is a representation, created by a brain, that leads an animal to eat more of it and to select it over, say, green bananas or sulfur.

[...] At night, something magical happened, something that could have challenged the beliefs of this [ancient] human and could have challenged the belief in direct realism: dreaming. The eyes are closed, one is lying in bed, but one is experiencing (somehow) a whole reality, full of colors, objects, discussions, and desires. I wonder how this ancient human reacted to having experienced a dream. I wonder what he or she thought about dreams. Did it challenge at all his or her direct realism? (MORE - details)

[Railko]

It's a nice thought. But humans are not the only animals that dream, so I'd think that this ability would have appeared earlier in evolution, arguably even in non-human and non-homind animals. 

I would also think that altered states of consciousness, common in the natural world (if a human accidentally eats something with toxic effects, they might end up hallucinating) would be a challenge to direct realism, as well as the experience of living in groups (if one caveman swears there's a banana there and another doesn't, it indicates something's amiss somewhere). Maybe they wouldn't know about the biology behind it, but stuff like trepanning indicates that humans knew even back then of a "mental" realm, and subjectivity.

[C C]

It's a nice thought. But humans are not the only animals that dream, so I'd think that this ability would have appeared earlier in evolution, arguably even in non-human and non-homind animals. 

I would also think that altered states of consciousness, common in the natural world (if a human accidentally eats something with toxic effects, they might end up hallucinating) would be a challenge to direct realism, as well as the experience of living in groups (if one caveman swears there's a banana there and another doesn't, it indicates something's amiss somewhere). Maybe they wouldn't know about the biology behind it, but stuff like trepanning indicates that humans knew even back then of a "mental" realm, and subjectivity.

Welcome to the forum, Raikuo. Nice to have a legitimate new member for a change, instead of a flyby passing through just to advertise a website, or a paper/book they published.

[Railko]

Thank you! I'm hoping to stick around a while, this looks like a really nice place.